Scottish Blends -- What the Hell are They?

[sinistertopiary]

Over here mate asked 'What make a Balkan a Balkan, how is it different from other English Blends', to which python answered 'a Balkan has more Oriental with a little bit of Latakia and an English has more Latakia with a little bit, if any, Oriental', an answer to which I concur.
My question is, What's a Scottish blend?
I had thought I once came across a definition that said it was primarily an oriental/virginia blend, but I've been looking around for other definitions.
The answers I've seen are wildly variable, from GL Pease's claim that 'A Scottish blend is similar to an English, with less Latakia, a more dominant Virginia character and, perhaps, little or no oriental leaf' to answers at http://forum.pipes.org like 'I understand that a "Scottish blend" is similar to an "English blend"...but with the addition of a high percentage of cavendish tobacco' and 'Typically, at least for as long as I have been working in this industry, we have classified Scottish blends as English blends containing enough Cavendish to qualify it as a light aromatic', to 'Dark with Latakia and Black Virginias, deeply seasoned with Orientals, this is the classic full Scottish smoke.'
This last one is the tin description of McClelland's Oriental No. 14, which has lately become one of my favorite go-to blends. If McClelland's definition is correct then I'm definitely a fan of Scottish blends.
But is McClelland's definition correct? Certainly they think so.
Given all these divergent definitions I can't help but think it's one of those rorschach words where it can mean whatever the blender wishes it to mean.
The reason I ask is because if McClelland's Oriental No. 14 is an example of a Scottish Blend -- which to me tastes like a Balkan where the oriental is pushed even more to the front and center, sweetened with Virginia, the latakia playing a minor role as a condiment giving it just enough body and creaminess -- I want to find more like it.

 

[python]

I wish that I had an exact answer for your question, but the fact is, I don't.
That is why in the thread that you pointed out from Mate about what makes a Balkan a Balkan, I had said that I don't worry about the classifications of tobacco blends. As you said, it seems that these "classifications" can mean whatever the blender wants them to mean.
The waters seem to get really muddy when trying to decipher the difference between English, Balkan, and Scottish blends. It seems that every one has a different opinion on what makes up what style of blend and there is no clear cut rule saying exactly what makes a type of blend that type.
That is why, for my own purposes and for myself, I classify pipe tobacco blends into 4 categories. Here is how I classify them for myself:
1) Aromatics - Any blend that has a dominate added flavor.
2) Virginias - Any blend where the predominate tobacco is Virginia, but it can not contain any Latakia. Sometimes I will classify a VA/PER as a Virginia if the level of Perique is very small and almost unnoticeable.
3) Virginia/Perique (VA/PER) - Any Virginia blend that contains a large amount of Perique. What I mean by a large amount is, a very noticeable amount to where even the most casual smoker can tell it is in there.
4) English - Any blend that contains a decent amount of Latakia. The reason that I say a decent amount is, because I have had some blends that contain such a small amount of Latakia that it is virtually undetectable in the blend.
I know this post didn't really answer your question, but I just wanted to let you know why I don't put too much faith in manufacturers tobacco classifications and how I personally classify them for my own smoking pleasure and to decide what I want to smoke at any given time.
Basically, I will smoke any blend no matter what manufacturer classification is on it and if I like it, I will continue to smoke it. If I don't I won't.

 

[sinistertopiary]

Thank you, python, for your sensible response. I figured my question was more rhetorical than anything else.
However, having the neural network I do, I can't help but try to create my own taxonomy. If English is a family of blends wherein latakia is the defining characteristic I'll take the naive step of creating my own genuses, since most pipers seem to at least differentiate between English & Balkan (as you yourself did). I see it as a question of proportions, so for my own peace of mind I'll create my own (completely arbitrary) definitions:

• English: latakia dominant, virginia & oriental supporting[/*]
  
• Balkan: oriental dominant, latakia secondary (or equal), virginia supporting[/*]
  
• Scottish: oriental dominant, virginia secondary (or equal), latakia supporting[/*]

There, I feel better. But now I can't help but wonder what a blend would be called that has virginia dominant, with oriental & latakia supporting. Confederate?
I would also add another family of blends,

• 5) Cajun Black[/*]

McClelland's superb new leaf.

Basically, I will smoke any blend no matter what manufacturer classification is on it and if I like it, I will continue to smoke it. If I don't I won't.

But of course. It'd just be nice if we all spoke the same language.

 

[python]

Your classifications of what makes up English, Balkan, and Scottish blends sound good to me, and are very close to what I try to classify them as. Although I have never thought about Scottish blends, your descriptions of English and Balkan are pretty much what I would describe as the difference between the two.
I agree that it would be nice, and a lot simpler as well, if we did all speak the same language when it comes to what makes a type of blend that type.
I was just thinking; since we are discussing what makes a type of blend that type, how would you classify an Oriental blend?
Since you have Scottish style as:

Scottish: oriental dominant, virginia secondary (or equal), latakia supporting

Which has Oriental as the dominant but it does contain some Latakia.

So I would say that an Oriental blend would be:

Oriental: Oriental dominant, Virginia secondary (or equal)
Would you agree? Disagree? I can't wait to hear your thoughts and opinions.

 

[python]

Also, I just wanted to respond to this part of your post.

Sinistertopiary Said: ...since most pipers seem to at least differentiate between English & Balkan (as you yourself did).

It is true that I used to try to differentiate between the two, but I no longer do that in my personal decision making. I do however still read and try to learn about as much stuff pipe and tobacco related as I can, because even though I might not follow it personally, others will have questions about those things as Mate did.
I see it as my responsibility as a Moderator and Contributing Editor of PipesMagazine.com to at least attempt to be able to answer all questions that our members and readers may have. I may not have the knowledge and/or time to do so all of the time, but IMO, I owe it to all of you members to at least try to do so.
This is a very interesting and enjoyable conversation that we are having. I hope others will join in with their opinions and thoughts.

 

[sinistertopiary]

I was just thinking; since we are discussing what makes a type of blend that type, how would you classify an Oriental blend?

The first thing I think of when a blend is called oriental is that the blend serves as a stage to make the oriental a star, with the others ingredients its supporting cast. I'm thinking especially of McClelland's green label tins which exemplify this opinion.
With such a definition Balkans & Scottish blends would both be classified as Orientals. Indeed that's exactly what McClelland does with Oriental No 14, which they call a "classic full Scottish".
I suppose ultimately it's a question of balance, since I would not characterize most Balkans as orientals, probably because the orientals are not the star but part of the admixture that gives Balkans their wonderful complexity.
I wonder how an oriental/virginia blend would be without Latakia. On the surface it seems to me it would be unbalanced. Indeed there was a controversy about Presbyterian Mixture where it was thought it didn't contain any latakia, that it was a straight oriental/virginia blend until it was definitively settled by the maker's catalogue that it does indeed contain latakia. (Very nice blend too, by the way.) This didn't surprise me, since even though the latakia is subsidiary it subtly ties the flavors together by rounding them out in an unobtrusive, creamy base.
But this is all fun semantics. And yet the human mind can't help but categorize, which is fine so long as the categories don't harden into dogmatic stereotypes.

This is a very interesting and enjoyable conversation that we are having. I hope others will join in with their opinions and thoughts.

Agreed.
[PS: I can't seem to put a line break after the quotes...]

 

[admin]

[PS: I can't seem to put a line break after the quotes...]

Yes, I know. It's some silly bug in the code and I'm all out of bug spray.
I'll make a note to look into it.

 

[dunendain]

My fav Scottish blend is Rattrays Accountants Mixture. I love that stuff but my B&M wants 21 dollars per can. Outrage!!!!

 

[dunendain]

I really enjoy this forum. I do not want to name names, but other pipe forums seem to be very stiff. For little reason. PipesMagazine.com rocks.

 

[sinistertopiary]

Mighty Stiff.
That's why I wandered around until I settled here. Didn't want to have to wear my sunday best just to go out for a drink.

 

[sinistertopiary]

My fav Scottish blend is Rattrays Accountants Mixture.

So what makes this a scottish blend?

...21 dollars per can. Outrage!!!!

Here in Canada $21 for a can of some top-notch blend would be a bargain!

 

[dunendain]

Wow. I stopped smoking cigars when I moved to California. Honestly I could not afford them. I found out from a friend that I could smoked world class tobacco at a much better price. As well as learning the art of pipe smoking. Also meeting some fine people along the way. My pipe, helped me through a very tough 2008 when in the spring I found I had a very nasty case of colon cancer. Sorry. Did not intend to bum anyone out. I loved the link to the wiki series of Mr. Pease explaining what Scottish, English, and Balkan tobaccos are. Now, can someone tell me what Irish tobacco is. There is an interesting blend by Perretti called Prince of Wales. With Latakia, black cav., and something called Irish tobacco.

 

[python]

Dunendain Said: I really enjoy this forum. I do not want to name names, but other pipe forums seem to be very stiff. For little reason. PipesMagazine.com rocks.

Sinistertopiary Said: Mighty Stiff.

That's why I wandered around until I settled here. Didn't want to have to wear my sunday best just to go out for a drink.

Thanks Guys! We try to have a non stuffy atmosphere here and let people speak their minds (within reason). We are all adults and let our members speak (type) and act like adults.
As far as what makes a type of tobacco Irish tobacco, I have no idea. Maybe a higher nicotine content?

Maybe ST knows.

 

[admin]

Dunendain Said: I really enjoy this forum. I do not want to name names, but other pipe forums seem to be very stiff. For little reason. PipesMagazine.com rocks.

Sinistertopiary Said: Mighty Stiff.

That's why I wandered around until I settled here. Didn't want to have to wear my sunday best just to go out for a drink.

Sorry for the late reply. I had to leave town unexpectedly on some emergency family business.
Thanks for the compliments guys. It's greatly appreciated and makes me feel good about the effort we put in around here.
Tobacco Snobs (and Pipe Snobs) are certainly welcome here just as long as they don't act snobbish.
A fun, friendly, mellow atmosphere is what we are all about. We will save "Mighty Stiff" for the women in our lives and leave it out of the forums and rest of the website.
Carry on then. Let's smoke.

 

[dunendain]

"Mighty stiff for the women" Right own brother.

 

[sinistertopiary]

Some catching up...

a very nasty case of colon cancer

I hope you're ok now.

As far as what makes a type of tobacco Irish tobacco, I have no idea. Maybe a higher nicotine content?

Maybe ST knows.

Me? Why would I know? I thought I was the guy asking the questions...
However, I did a tiny bit of research, and found essentially two definitions, neither of which is all that helpful:

1. Any blend made in Ireland

• Any aromatic blend made in Ireland

I'd like to know if there's a better definition. I suppose we'd need to go to the blenders and ask them what they mean by it.

We will save "Mighty Stiff" for the women in our lives and leave it out of the forums and rest of the website.

 

[python]

ST Said: Me? Why would I know? I thought I was the guy asking the questions...

Since I didn't know, I thought I would just hand the ball off to someone else, lol.

 

[dunendain]

Thanks guys. I am cancer free. Thank God and City of Hope cancer hospital in LA. They used robotic surgery that saved my life when I had been written off.

I really wanted to order a Latakia, black Cavendish blend and Prince of Wales sounded good. It was just the Irish tobacco I was unsure of. I e-mailed Peretti and got no response. It was a good price as well. So, hells bells.

 

[sinistertopiary]

I am cancer free. Thank God and City of Hope cancer hospital in LA. They used robotic surgery that saved my life when I had been written off.

That's great to hear! Congratulations!
Robotic surgery... wow. Sounds like there's a story there...

 

[python]

I am cancer free. Thank God and City of Hope cancer hospital in LA. They used robotic surgery that saved my life when I had been written off.
Sinistertopiary Said: That's great to hear! Congratulations!
Robotic surgery... wow. Sounds like there's a story there...

+1 Great news!