School Full of Nazis....

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flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
drwatson, like you I was not offended by gamecock's euphemism in the context of his rant.
I was interested to hear about your grandfather. Unlike the French, the Poles did not capitulate against the Nazis. When the country was overrun they moved their government to London, and many Poles fought in the army and flew in RAF. Indeed some of the best pilots were Poles. However Poland was treated shabbily/shamefully at the end of the war by Stalin, Roosevelt (then Eisenhower) and Churchill - they were hung out to dry.

 

gamecockpiper

Lurker
Jul 11, 2013
30
0
Wow....@drwatson- I actually didn't think of that! WWII history is a hobby of mine but I actually didn't know about Hitler and the smoking-that's interesting. A scary but seemingly true "Fourth Reich" comment as well. It's a scary thought to entertain, although not unwarranted.

 

phred

Lifer
Dec 11, 2012
1,754
4
As for the policy itself, it's definitely an attempt to control behavior. :D
Out of curiosity, was this simply announced as a policy fait accompli, or was there any pretense of community input? With college campuses, there's often a weird sort of disconnect between the administration trying to treat the students as both reasonable adults and simultaneously as dangerously ignorant children, who need to be protected for their own good...
Come to think of it, this also applies to county commissioners, homeowners' associations, and other legislative bodies. Sigh.

 

May 31, 2012
4,295
34
250407poster2.jpg

Uh oh, the faux pas N-word!
In linguistics, I tend to favor a descriptivist approach, as opposed to the prescriptivist bent of "language control".



Prescriptivists prescribe and sometimes proscribe, emphasising rules and guidelines based on the conservation of customs (and sometimes a mythical ideal of correctness), and on judging what is or isn’t acceptable.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3516
The N-word has entered the common vernacular, regardless of any conceived bad taste. This is the nature of language, trying to "fight" change by using hypercorrection will only lead to general resentment - a quick look to the unintended results of speaking PC, although its aim was indeed noble, to elicit a sensitivity for the community as a whole, it is now in most cases universally derided, and that's because it snowballs into an unyielding rigidity, even in ridiculous circumstances.
The Oxford English Dictionary has got it right, they always include words as they're used by the people, because language is not just some abstract concept, language is people, we form the language by how we use it, it is in a continual mutation, there's no stopping the alterations, if there was, we'd all still be speaking like Chaucer!
OED:

Nazi n. 2.b. hyperbolically. A person who is perceived to be authoritarian, autocratic, or inflexible; one who seeks to impose his or her views upon others. Usu. derogatory.
...and on a brighter note,

I think if you have enough smokers you should stage some sort of demonstration. Nothing violent, don't kidnap the president. But make it known you don't want your rights messed with. I am fed up with people, like our Mayor Bloomberg, whose preoccupation is to make policies that they have decided are good for other people. And then they don't follow those policies themselves. We have a lot of busybodies in this country.
foggy is right!
Hell, it worked for New Amsterdam...

In 1647, the Burghers of New Amsterdam (now New York City) held what has been known as the Smoker's Rebellion. Peter Stuyvesant, the Governor of the settlement, had ordered an edict forbidding pipe smoking by the Dutch Colonists in Public. The burghers were so roused by the edict that a huge party was organized and visited the governor's home. Great clouds of smoke were seen by the citizens of the then small colony. Their point was made and the Governor withdrew his order.
A great quick read here:

http://briarfiles.blogspot.com/2008/06/featured-pipe-smoker-smokers-rebellion.html
tsr.jpg


 

brewshooter

Lifer
Jun 2, 2011
1,658
3
I for one applaud internet threads that invoke Godwin's Law right off the bat!!! Get it out of the way I say! :wink:
As for the no smoking on campus thing, I guess they know they've lost the alcohol battle with the students. Looks like they've found something new to cling to.

 

teufelhund

Lifer
Mar 5, 2013
1,497
3
St. Louis, MO
I had the same issue at my school. However in Missouri a personally owned vehicle (since we pay property taxes) by their law is considered an extension of your home; so we just smoked in our cars. It didn't mean you were exempt frombeing hassled and they were definitely looking for anything to give you a hard time. My personal favorite being citations for littering just by flicking cigarette ash. It was basically BS but it could ruin your day. I just bought a bobkin and used that. Maybe the same applies on your campus? Although any illegal activity is considered in plain sight in your vehicle so be careful not to piss the wrong person off.

 

bryanf

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 16, 2013
742
8
Can you organize a protest? A protest with lots and lots of smoke? Might even be fun.
It was crap like this that led to my long addiction to Copenhagen. At least, you could hide it from the fascist anti's.
Seems everything I like has anti's. Hunting, target shooting, even dirt bike riding, and especially smoking. I also like to drink - for some reason no one seems to be attacking THAT!

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
Since colleges and universities are supposed to be places of inquiry and intellectual discussion, it would

seem a worthy goal to use this issue as a launching pad. Enough people, in the discussion of human rights,

hold in esteem the right to be left alone. I think pipe smoking is a good topic because it is not all that similar

to cigarette smoking: inhaling is not part of the standard habit; most pipe smokers don't have to rush out every

two hours for a pipe break; pipe smokers have a high degree of control of what tobacco they smoke and its

contents. And so on. There isn't even adequate science on the health effects, contrasted to cigarette smoking

and tobacco chewing. The advantage would be that along with possibly winning some concessions for a place

to smoke a pipe, you'd learn a lot about how to marshall an issue through legislative process and public opinion.

It seems more useful than simply going away, and more efficient in terms of completing your education.

 

drwatson

Lifer
Aug 3, 2010
1,721
5
toledo
God love these forums, they are starting to get fun again!! OH CRAP! Can I say that or is it the G-Word? :rofl:

 

taerin

Lifer
May 22, 2012
1,851
1
I used to give out a free cigar to my group in college whenever we successfully completed our final project to smoke outside on campus in their really nice smoker's area with benches. My college a couple months from graduation decided to make it a completely smoke free zone and even tried to penalize you if you were in the parking lot.

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,636
14,758
Pollute the air

Pollute the oceans

Genetically modify our food without knowing the consequences

Feed us Junk Food

Put cancer generating agents everywhere

Poison our children during rush hour traffic in cars
But we will not tolerate dirty smokers!
Amen.
EDIT: It's called "straining out gnats but swallowing camels" ... as Christ told the Pharisees.

 

judcole

Lifer
Sep 14, 2011
7,187
33,589
Detroit
Jud also has the right to express himself, which is all that he actually did. It's not as if he physically reached through the Internet to prevent anyone from typing the word - he simply expressed his opinion of someone else's expression of opinion. That's how discourse works. He also did not engage in ad hominem attack on the person speaking - he focused simply on the use of a word that he found distracted from the original poster's point. Focusing on the action rather than the person is how constructive criticism works. I saw no attempt at control of anything - simply some advice, couched as a personal opinion expressed in a polite manner.
Furthermore, the way this conversation went off the rails is a perfect example of why one might not want to use hyperbole as a rhetorical device (leaving aside the specific term used). It's not about controlling anything - it's about encouraging clarity in communications.
Thanks, Phred. I completely agree. :puffy:

 

seanlamb63

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 20, 2013
114
0
Bethlehem
They tried to do the same thing when I was in college. Instead of abiding by the ridiculous rule, we decided to fight it. We got almost every smoker we could find on campus, called the local news station, and decided to light up in the center of the quad. The next day the President of the University revoked the regulation and bought out door ashtrays to put around campus. We won in the end, and all it took was us to get off of our butts and do something about it.

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,636
14,758
I also like to drink - for some reason no one seems to be attacking THAT!
I’m sure that is because in the case of alcohol, the beneficial medicinal effects far outweigh the risks, as so clearly enumerated in this ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN0254u56Mc

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
bryanf, the U.S. tried doing away with drinking. Alphonse Capone made a lot of money in Chicago.

And the plan was eventually abandoned.

 
Apr 26, 2012
3,381
5,604
Washington State
Can't really comment on smoking on campus as I didn't smoke during my college days other than a random cigar while playing poker or at a party. I also haven't been in college for more than 10 years so I don't know what the policy is there now.
As for the term "anti-smoking Nazis" I don't think its offensive as I believe its an accurate statement. Hitler was a Nazis obviously and he was anti-smoking at that. I'm not sure how the term came about but I'm sure it had a lot to do with Hitler himself.

 

dannybeans

Lurker
Aug 12, 2013
29
0
Northern Indiana
As for the term "anti-smoking Nazis" I don't think its offensive as I believe its an accurate statement. Hitler was a Nazis obviously and he was anti-smoking at that. I'm not sure how the term came about but I'm sure it had a lot to do with Hitler himself.
The problem with that statement is that it's an example of the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy:
The Nazis created the Autobahn. Therefore the Autobahn (and by extension the U.S. Interstate system, which it inspired) is evil.
Hitler (ironically enough) supported animal rights. Therefore the Humane Society is a pack of Nazis.
Hitler ate sugar. You don't want to be like Hitler, do you?
Note that I'm not commenting on the topic itself - just the argument.

 
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