Russian Military Explores U.S. Limit in the Arctic

[mso489]

Lots of activity by the Russian navy and air force in pushing the limits of U.S. territorial waters, written up at some length in the NYT today. Fishing boats have been warned by radio to clear out of legal fishing areas so submarines can launch cruise missiles, with warnings backed up by aircraft and warships. Time to start building up the U.S. fleet. The Coast Guard is on this, as is the U.S. Navy. Lots of probing and testing going on. Apparently Russia has "dozens" of icebreaker ships, and we have a few old clunkers, but two new ones on the way. It seem ice may not be a problem as time goes on. My minesweeper was ghosted by a Russian "trawler" in the waters off Vietnam eons ago, so this is not a new, but now much closer to home. Back in my day, legend had it that destroyers would pull up along side the trawlers and blow their bilge pumps, oily crud, all over them. Maybe, or wishful thinking. The old wooden minesweepers have been replaced by Littoral Combat ships, multi-purpose craft that can be refitted for various tasks, which we did with our Washington spruce hulled buckets.

 

[bullet08]

They have been at it for awhile. But with new leadership in USA, I assume they will step it up to test his response.

 

[mso489]

One of the advantages of smaller ships is that you can have more of them in more places. One of the values of that little minesweeper I was on was that several of them could cover a lot of ground, everything from weather to junk traffic that could be transporting weapons. We didn't sweep any mines, but they kept us out there for months at a time and resupplied us from oilers doing underway replenishment (as it is called). As someone said of going to work, being there is half the battle. Then if more is needed, you can call down the aircraft carrier and destroyer task force, and aircraft right away. We were the kid brother, and if we got picked on, here come the big boys.

 

[daveinlax]

They have been at it for awhile. But with new leadership in USA, I assume they will step it up to test his response.

Putin will play the Pee Tape card until 1/20. ?

 

[mawnansmiff]

They do the very same over here with UK airspace, flying their surveillance aircraft right up to the limits but then the RAF & USAF (based over here aplenty) send up their jets and they soon bugger off back home.

Just trying their luck I guess ?

Regards,

Jay.?.

 

[warren]

We've had the Russians pushing the envelope around Alaska since the early 50's. NATO countries face the same pesky testing. The Russians and the Chinese get it from us. So, it's not a new development. What was and is disconcerting is/was the Congress refusing requests for ice breakers, new longer range Coast Guard vessels to replace the aged fleet and such. We also are averse to aggressively keeping borders defined. The Air Force is constantly meeting and escorting "Bear" bombers. The press just recently decided to make such as new and alarming news. They, we and NATO are constantly appraising response times.

I was a loadmaster in an old and slow C-123 that strayed over Russian claimed ocean on the way to Nome. We were escorted by Migs for a while. We'd wave at the Commies and they cheerfully waved back. The "Cold War" was a reality up here and not simply media reports.

A childhood friend of mine was an officer on a sub that used to regularly sneak up the Sea of Okhotsk to retrieve telephone records from the Russians undersea phone cables from taps we'd placed. They trusted landlines more than radios. The US trusted encoding air traffic more than they did. I suppose they figured since the landlines stayed"in country" they were safe. Hardly! The information was a bit dated but, important none the less.

It's kinda like bad mouthing the Russians for trying to influence our elections while we do the same to them. A game it is but, a very serious game.

 

[canucklehead]

It's clearly Canadian territory.

 

[warren]

Ah, Canada! God love 'em! They think a couple of barbed wire fences will stop the Siberian Express from blowing through Saskatchewan every winter.

 

[olkofri]

Ah, Canada! God love 'em! They think a couple of barbed wire fences will stop the Siberian Express from blowing through Saskatchewan every winter.

Trains are easy to derail. 'sides, the route of invasion is gonna be Alaska and the west coast, and it's gonna be the Chinese doing it. Ruskies are more interested in Europe.

 

[renfield]

Over the last couple of years the Russians have also greatly increased the harassment of US aircraft in International airspace. Not to mention violating various arms development treaties both ratified and un-ratified but previously observed by both sides.

 

[mawnansmiff]

I have a sneaky feeling this thread will soon go sideways....though I hope it doesn't!

Regards,

Jay.?

 

[rajangan]

I have a sneaky feeling this thread will soon go sideways....though I hope it doesn't!

Regards,

Jay.?

Before it does, I want to say I'm glad that our friends and allies in the US are as concerned as we are with protecting the North. I just hope one day we have an administration that takes it more seriously.

 

[warren]

I was referring to the winds Putin sends every winter. In the Dakotas they say only the barbed wire fences in Canada slow it down.

History show Russia is really only in a buffer between their country and the West. The Amur border area is still a bone of contention between them and Chinese. There is no love lost between those two countries in spite of what the media sometimes propounds. The Chinese understand that the way to world domination if through economics. They also understand a "hot" war with either Russia (A hated enemy) or the USA means a war with the other also.

The "World Domination" battles are being fought today. Little, seemingly insignificant, shooting wars are only a small part of it. The Chinese will domonate economically, supplanting the US as world baby sitter, in but a few more years unless we quit befriending them and fight back. But, we should remember, no country dominates for more than a couple hundred years. Rome, England, and a couple others come to mind. There is always a time when the dominating country's population loses interest and drive. They simply tire of the competition and settle for "also ran." It's the natural order of things I guess.

 

[olkofri]

In the Dakotas they say only the barbed wire fences in Canada slow it down.

Hehehe. I was being jocular myself. After all, an invading force wouldn't come by train anymore, but would use the main highways, of which there are none in SK's north.

 

[rajangan]

Hehehe. I was being jocular myself. After all, an invading force wouldn't come by train anymore, but would use the main highways, of which there are none in SK's north.

You are being deceptive ?. There are excellent highways in northern Saskatchewan that were built to carry all sorts of heavy machinery ?, and the best time to attack is in the middle of summer when the muskeg is most solid.

 

[Gecko]

Russia's GDP is very small, about on par with South Korea or somewhat less than Italy's.
There is no way they can afford any large scale wars or invasions.
They do however love to play bully and see if there are any advantages to gain that way.
Rumors are that Putin is suffering from somekind of neurological deciese and will soon have to retire. He's been looking swollen and seen to be shaking. They are changing the laws to give him lifetime immunity.

I guess it's a good time to walk softly and carry a big pipe.

Bonus clip of Putin being sweet to a puppy.

 

[LOREN]

Yes, there seems to be a lot more interest in the area now that ice caps are receding.

 

[warren]

There is no way they can afford any large scale wars or invasions.

When a large percentage of their budget is directed towards their military the size of the GDP is not really an issue. At least not to the Russians. If "slave labor" is required they can readily adapt. They do not have the "social conscious" we Westerners do.

Hitler thought the same about the Russians. The thing to remember is that Russians show up en masse to defend their territory. They'll fight when starving, destroy their crops and factories rather than let an enemy use them.
Russians have no choice but to fight when told to. Their Third World economy isn't even a concern. They'd love to participate in a joint war against the Chinese. They don't have a border buffer and, for their peace of mind, would much prefer a less bellicose neighbor on their joint border. They'd probably do as they did in WWII with the Japanese, wait until the issue was decided or, nearly so, and then invade China.

If threatened, China is considered a threat, the nuclear option is readily available. I do not believe they'd be averse to using it if threatened. Never underestimate the Russians in a fight. The Swedes did. Napoleon learned a hard lesson. Hitler's disdain for them was his downfall.

 

[anotherbob]

wait till you read about what China is doing in the waters around their territory. That's some fun stuff.

 

[canucklehead]

wait till you read about what China is doing in the waters around their territory. That's some fun stuff.

I have seen a lot of pics of their new islands, any shallow spots (pretty much the whole South China Sea is shallow) that are close to strategically important areas they dumped a few ships of dirt on and built aircraft carrier sized military outposts with landing strips.