RIP Phillip Seymour Hoffman

[lucky695]

OK might as well throw my hat in the ring... I will speak in what I see are facts.
Fact#1 PSH was a versatile, accomplished actor with numerous accolades to his resume', which in turn means he was an intelligent human being.
Fact#2 He was an addict. Sought treatment, became sober and then at some point relapsed...chronology uncertain on that timeline.
Fact#3 He had a family to provide for.
It is my OPINION that given the above facts, that PSH was a selfish and egocentric moron.

#1 He knew the value and importance of sobriety at some point. I reiterate that you have to be an intelligent person to be able to produce the acting ability that he was able.

#2 I don't conform to the "addictive personality" mantra. He knew what he was doing, he knew he shouldn't, but nothing else mattered to him more than that high. I say selfish, because he was aware of the risks and consequences that may befall him and I say egocentric because, as with most addicts, he thought he was in control of that. He wasn't. Is is tragic? Yes. It is tragic that his children will know that he was a talented, accomplished, God gifted individual, who unfortunately cared a lot about getting high. We all come to some sort of revelation of one sort or another in our lives. We all have pain. The simple fact that others who have been through far more than I can ever fathom, atrocities that are unimaginable do not find a need to crawl into a needle is all I have to know about "addictive personalities" it is a coping mechanism. He chose to cope with whatever he was dealing with in a needle... the first time and the last time too. He could afford it. It was made readily available to him. So he did it. He chose to use that to cope. It was a choice the first time and it was a choice the last time. So in that same breath what is OK to be addicted to? What is acceptable as an addiction, and still be given the luxury of hiding behind the ruse that it is a "disease". Alcoholism? Social acceptable...common...support groups? Sure.. no shame in that. Pornography? Is that an addiction? Maybe. No law against it? Pedophilia? Serial Rapists? Mass murderers? Would we be mourning the loss of a rapist who dies in the commission of his crime? Is it getting less acceptable now? Are they too just "misunderstood"? It's an addiction right... it's their "personality". It's not their fault... BS. I can't believe that this forum has come to this, but I could not sit here and listen to rationalizing this as a disease. Too many diseases take too many people. Cancer, ALS, MS, I could go on. You want to sully the struggle of those survivors and victims by labeling an over indulged junkie as a victim of disease? I won't. He was a great actor but a selfish man, and that's not a disease.

 

[bryanf]

I have many friends who are ex addicts of the worst kind. I was a jazz musician, and heroin usage was very common. These people are among my most cherished, and trustworthy friends, and some of the best people I've known.
Addiction is a disease. This is medically accepted, by those with much higher education and experience than I. The ignorance, labeling, and lack of compassion or understanding by some who have posted disgusts me.
Heroin is an insipid disease, wily, and cruel. It has taken down many a very good man, and I'm sad for anyone in its grip.
No one looks in the mirror as a child and thinks, "I want to be a junky when I grow up." Only someone in unimaginable pain would choose to stick a needle in their arm, and completely destroy their ability to feel anything. Often, the choice is suicide, or getting loaded....or that's how the heroin addict feels, even if that thought is foolish. The mind of an addict works against him, trying to kill him, or make him use. Heroin addiction cannot be compared to any other form of addiction. It is far more evil.
I feel compassion toward Hoffman. I didn't even like him as an actor, but I was raised to have some respect for the dead. Yit adal, v'yitkadash sh'mei raba...
I don't choose to air my personal experience on the internet, but his death hits very close to home.

 

[gwtwdbss]

WTF! You brought how he died and now you want to close the thread. A celebrity goes on a drug bender and dies with a needle in his arm surrounded by empty bindles and you want to talk about his work? I'm surprised TMZ doesn't have the photo's up yet.

You're right daveinlax. I was really broken up yesterday by the news and realized my error after the 45 minute cutoff for editing a post. I appreciate everyone's comments and thank you all for you patience with me.

 

[lucky695]

those who disagree are entitled to their disgust as I am entitled to mine. But lumping an addict in the same category as someone who has Breast cancer or leukemia is disgusting to me. When did they "decide" to become disease ridden? NEVER. It was illegal when you pushed that needle in your arm for the first time for a reason...someone...everyone was trying to prevent you from doing so. It is illegal for a reason, it destroys lives. It was a selfish choice the first time you took a bump, as hit, a taste...whatever. don't blame someone else... you weren't addicted until you "decided" to do what everyone including the law warned you not to. Then to cry foul and say it's a disease is cowardly and weak. Like you didn't know that would happen, or thought I can handle this. You put that needle in your arm the first time.. the second and every time there after. Did the man with Malaria seek out the mosquito that infected him? Did the woman with brain cancer ingest some sort of cancer cake that she knew full well could kill her? NO. It's not even close to a similarity. For someone who sees disease everyday...real disease...and a had mother who had 3 rounds with cancer your rationalization is disgusting. BooHoo not my fault... BS it is your fault. Your choice your arm your needle. Be a man and own it. You wanna blame peer pressure or "everyone else is doing it"...fine. But don't HIDE behind the I'm not to blame it's a disease...get outta jail free card. If you are sober..kudos. Stay that way, and get your head around your culpability in your decisions. you want to quote scripture?...ok... Magnified and sanctified be God's great name (translation of your post)....Amen
Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. (feel free to substitute wine for ANYTHING other that God, for what we make our idols will be our undoing in the eyes of God)
2 Peter 2:19
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
You can not have it both ways sir.

 

[tuold]

Heroin is a drug you can get addicted to on the very first try. One time and you are done. I think a mistake made among some of the rich and famous (who can afford to buy this stuff) is that they are immune from addiction. A lot of "regular" people hold that view as well. I'd like to see more education and awareness on this topic so when somebody is presented with a choice to try heroin they will know better.
Heroin causes misery and death and crime, but alcohol may be a worse problem as a whole for society. These heroin deaths tend to be high profile. There is no good in any of this. You can only pray for those left behind.

 

[condorlover1]

Addiction followed by relapse is a story as old as the ages itself. How many bone yards are filled with the casualties of narcotics? During the 19th century you could buy all sorts of fun stuff from your local chemists providing you signed the poisons register. Dock workers on the night shift were given cocaine to keep them awake and make them work harder. Pot was grown commonly and tea smokers as they were referred to in that time were often portrayed in dime detective novels as either poor or black so Hollywood drug deaths are nothing new and if anything have become a once every three years event as opposed to a once every six months. I guess there is more milage in magazine interviews about ones struggle with whatever ails you, well it always seems that way to me when I stand in line at the check out glancing at the trashy magazines. With regards to PSH perhaps it was better he went now. Some stars burn so brightly that they just burn themselves out like one of those July 4th rockets you see in the sky. I think and I may be wrong here that his end was better then some long drawn out journey to indifference followed by the occasional B movie where he would stumble over his lines while wired on drugs.

 

[petes03]

He was a good actor, and for that he will be missed.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I think this is all healthy debate. Of course some will get enraged that others don't immediately share that warmhearted feeling of loss. But, we all grieve differently, and differences are what makes us great. Heck, even rage is normal. All of this is normal. These differences keep us all in check. Tolerance goes both ways.
Tolerance does not mean that you like or accept something. It just means that you don't destroy it. I see this whole string is good. Things have been brought up that I'd not thought of on both sides. This guy has done some good stuff. Did he play John Adams once? Anyways, we can celebrate his life while pointing out what a selfish prick he was being by making the choices he made.
I lost a friend to alcohol about a year ago, and part of the funeral (at the request of the family) was to allow close friends and family vent their rage at what a poor choice he had made. That's fair, valid, compassionate, and a part of the grief process, but not in the PBS huggy kissy kind of way, but more of a parent's love kind of way.
Anyways, apparently the guy had fans, he'll be missed, and he was a junky. Don't be a junky, and don't glorify the junk. My two cents.

 

[tuold]

I've also recently lost a relative to drug overdose and there was a lot of venting and ill will expressed among family members towards the deceased. He had made all the wrong choices in life having been arrested many times, threatening family members, injuring others while driving without a license which got him a prison sentence .... T
The list goes on and on. He had numerous chances to straighten out but in the end succumbed to an overdose while staying at his dad's house. Frankly, his death was a relief to everybody. It's sad to see a life end like that, but that's addiction. It's all about self destruction and taking down the people around them in the process.
As for the callous thoughts of others regarding celebrity deaths, well, it's just so common these days to have actors and musicians go this route. There is such thing as "compassion burnout" especially when these people have just about unlimited resources to take care of their own problems. As a somebody who has lived with an addict, I have very little sympathy for the drug using "victim" but plenty of compassion for the survivors who not only have to find a way to mourn the loss after years of abuse but clean up the mess left behind by the deceased.

 

[mrenglish]

Its not like an addict can just turn off their addiction and live a happy life. There is a reason they are an addict, they fight that demon. Some do well and overcome their addiction, some go on and off and some fall off the deep end and hurt people on the way before they pass on.
I am not condoning their lifestyle choice or trying to glamorize the culture. They made bad choices and continued to so. Should you sympathize for them? That is up to each person and as we have seen, some people do and some do not. But one thing I have picked up from reading this thread is it seems like some people think you can just get over the addiction. Some people do with a lot of work, some struggle and some do not.
A lot of times addicts have their pain and the way to get over is to drink, do drugs or whatever. To them, that is the only thing that dulls their internal pain. In a previous work environment, I saw this constantly. No one starts out with hey, I am going to be an addict. I have a relative now that is dealing with PTSD from the stuff he had to do and saw when in Afghanistan. Initially the drinking/drug use was to kill that pain. It was only when he was on the edge of no return we were finally able to get him help but its a daily struggle for him.
I mean no disrespect to people who had different opinions and respect those who do. These are mine based on what I have observed and people I have worked with.

 

[weezell]

All of us suffer from personal demons, and unfortunately he was beaten by his

God Rest Him and console his family.

 

[houndstooth]

As for the callous thoughts of others regarding celebrity deaths, well, it's just so common these days to have actors and musicians go this route. There is such thing as "compassion burnout" especially when these people have just about unlimited resources to take care of their own problems.

This sparked a thought, Tuold... I am curious about what percentage of the total population of celebrities (actors, musicians, and other performing arts type of celebrities) struggle with drug and alcohol addictions. I wonder if it might not track fairly closely to the same percentages for the general population overall. It may just be that we all hear about the celebrity cases for obvious reasons, when perhaps the ratio is similar.
Think about it... when a celebrity overdoses, we all hear about it. It gets reported and covered as part of the "news." If it's just some guy who, lets say is a relative of one of us on this forum, for example, how many others among us on this forum would know about it unless someone made a personal post about it here? Clearly the answer is most certainly none.

 

[natibo]

I see heroin addicts all the time in the rooms of AA. Most of them are not movie stars. It can happen to anyone. The shame is when someone remain sober for a year plus, goes back out and dies. It happens to alcoholics too. They see the solution, but end up taking the other path. It's heartbreaking. Honesty and spirituality can you clean and sober, but it takes work.

 

[Wellington]

I've have addictions in my life, and still battle with things. Does it make me a self indulgent junkie? I don't think so. I spent five full years of intense suicidal depression, its literally a miracle I'm alive. It was a dark and horrible time. So when I see drug users and alcoholics, I don't judge them so quick. Maybe some of them started in that stuff for the hell of it or for a good time, and I can guarantee you a lot of them started in that stuff to escape from shit in their life, or to numb pain in their life. I don't believe man was meant to endure hardship like we do and some people just don't respond the same as others do to it.
We're human, we mess up, we get caught up in stuff we shouldn't, and concerning addictions we find ourselves slaves to something we so often hate but can't seem to find the strength or will power to overcome. I know what it feels like to be stuck in a place in life where you hate beyond belief but just can't get out of.
I'm very sorry Mr. Hoffman died, and the way he died. I believe it is very ignorant to judge the man, especially because no one here even knew him. I don't idolize him, I've seen only a few of his movies. He was a good actor, and thats all I knew of him. But as a fellow human being, its sad, as its aways sad when someone dies.