RIP Phillip Seymour Hoffman

[cosmicfolklore]

I saw an interesting presentation made on the very subject of drugs and enhancing performance, mostly geared towards musicians, actors, writers, and such. I think it's a misconception that it is the drugs that makes them great. However, if someone is using a particular drug hears a song that strikes a chord in them and then finds out later that they were doing the same drug, that is more typical. Like speaks to like, especially when they are the same wave length, so to speak. Take into consideration that the creative mind tends to be more prone to addiction and trying things that they are warned against. Even Shakespeare is under suspicion of drug abuse. It's like he was "too good" to be sober. Phhht!
Sometimes genius is just genius. I don't really think that the drugs make them better, but that drugs help them reach a specific audience sometimes, and it can also be indicative of someone who breaks the rules, so to speak. But, there is no evidence that drugs actually makes a person better at something. ...unless were talking steroids and baseball. ...well ... and, Ray Charles sucked once he cleaned up.
Anyways, I don't watch many of these newer movies, but he does look familiar. Terrible when anyone dies. ...well, unless we're talking Charles Manson or something.

 

[northernneil]

@dukdulf, I hear what you are saying, and agree that there does tend to be a double negitive when it comes to stars and political figures. However, the movie stars and musicians are not responsible for my well being, they are responsible for my entertainment. They do not hold the responsibility that an elected official would hold.
That being said, what is happening right now with Toronto's mayor, Rob Ford, is a perfect example of the double standard. People were ready to crucify him when they discovered his substance abuse problems. Was that the right response, I don't think so, he is human just like everyone else. However, his lack of remorse made it so my compassion only went so far.
I have family members who struggle with substance abuse problems. I agree that it is a disorder, but unfortunately a lot of people use it as an excuse. I do not know the detail surrounding Phillip's death, and I do not think it is important. I do feel sad that a person with such talent will not longer be able to share his gift with the world.

 

[warren]

I wasn't going to, but I can't resist.
I have never understood the phenomena of post-adolescents adoration of people who can follow directions and regurgitate a screen writer's words. I've never been one who was able suspend belief and enjoy most movies after about age 16 or so.
The sadness I feel for an over-indulgent person's death is that which pities the deceased for not strong enough to over-come and resist a personal weakness. Then I want to hunt down the enablers that tolerated and, indeed, probably encouraged such self-destructive behavior and . . . well, I suppose that is best left unsaid.

 

[captainsousie]

Thanks for the perspective houndstooth.

 

[woodsroad]

Warren, we are thinking along the same lines.
I will add that when we accept substance abuse by people whom we idolize, their addictive behavior become more acceptable, becomes a beacon to those that may be predisposed to addiction. I know, because I've been there. Although I was never a heroin user myself, I was immersed in the drug culture for many years. And it is a culture. A culture that justifies and glorifies it's existence in any and every way that it can, a culture that strives at every opportunity to envelope fresh souls, and to denigrate the outside world that, in it's eyes, will never understand it.
Maybe he was a great actor. That's cool. But he was also a self-indulgent junkie. And that makes him a loser. And dead.
If you need to show sympathy, show it to the ones who deserve it: The family that he left behind.

 

[captainsousie]

When do we become so full of ourselves that we can feel no mercy for those who suffer, whether it is from their own choices or from the choices of others? Sorry to break it to you but being saddened by the loss of a life is not idolizing whatever brought it about.

 

[northernneil]

Mourning the loss of life has nothing to do with accepting drug use, or even okaying it. All I can say is that I hope people who seem to not show any sympathy for people who have overdosed do not run into any "somking related" illnesses, because the way you hold addiction against "junkies", you will recieve the same consideration for you own ailments.
To me, it boils down to respect. Show respect for the dead and try to be sympathetic to their situation. Showing disrespect for the dead is a classless act, whether is be overdose, suicide or accident.

 

[warren]

I just can't pity or feel any sense of loss for self-destructive people. He made some choices and now the consequences have to be paid. Bieber will go the same route if he doesn't get a grip and . . . I couldn't care less.
Such people are simply not worth my interest or concern. Of course, when I was a copper I had an oath to live by. More than once I resuscitated some loser or another, exposing myself to aids, TB and other sundry illnesses. I felt a sense of accomplishment, but also felt that I hadn't done the community any favors in the long term.
Respect for the dead? As a rule? No way! One has to earn my respect in life to have it in death. Everybody dies. Death doesn't make the person any more or less worthy of respect.

 

[northernneil]

Warren, I'm sorry but I do not see life quite as black and white as you do. I do not understand the mindset of an addict because, fortunately, I am not one. But that does not mean I do not respect the life of the person. I fully believe that every person is a product of their environment. To simply assume that all addicts are weak, self destructive and worthless is narrow minded and damaging.
I guess I should hold faith that the majority of people I have met in my life, and I the people I consider to be a friend, do not hold the same world view as you. I do not mean to call you out, but to state that "these peopl are not worth your time," is disrespectful and uncalled for.

 

[woodsroad]

Neil, you need to come to terms with the fact that not everyone thinks like you. In part because they have led different lives than you and their experiences inform their opinion. Take note that while Warren does not agree with you, he doesn't codemn you for your opinion.
You could learn from that.
The Locksmith should be here by now.

 

[captainsousie]

Edit: Removed. Nobody's mind will be changed here.

 

[northernneil]

Woodsroad, I fully understand and respect that not everyone thinks like me. I am not condemning anyone for their thoughts. Just pointing out that their thought's may come off as disrespectful to others. I feel the golden rule would come into play here, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
It pains me to see people jump to condem a man for his personal struggles. We all have personal struggles that may or may not be socially acceptable. Hell, we all love tobacco, and today, that is a major negative.
Personal feelings on drugs and addiction aside, we are talking about a person who has recently died, maybe we should leave the judgement of said individual to the gods and not try and condem him ourselves.

 

[woodsroad]

"if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

I do not mean to call you out, but to state that "these peopl are not worth your time," is disrespectful and uncalled for.

 

[northernneil]

I do not see the conection between my two quotes, but I do not need to argue this any longer.

 

[brdavidson]

Whatever happened to gentlemen agreeing to disagree? Pruss and I debated this very topic in another medium and have polar opposite view points on this. However we agreed to disagree, like gentlemen should and moved on. This is a disturbing trend on this forum lately where opinions get expressed and then come under attack and things get at best uncivil and at worst downright disrespectful. I refuse to enter my opinion here, at this point it makes no sense. However I hope the discourse becomes more civil and respectful going forward.

 

[mso489]

To go back to the man's work as an actor, he was incredible, infused so much power into the roles he played,

whether he was playing a timid helpless fellow (Boogie Nights), a meglomaniac cult leader (The Master), or

an eccentric genius (Capote) or any of his many, many other roles, he did unpredictable and remarkable

work with each one. I heard a radio interview with him where he discussed his addiction to alcohol, and

explained that he had told his friends he couldn't drink in a limited social way; if he drank, it was a binge

lasting days or longer. My driving takes me past a methadone clinic from time to time, and this makes me

aware that addiction is an equal opportunity affliction; there are old beat up trucks and high-end sports

sedans with all the trimmings parked out front. This can happen to anyone, of any intelligence, any income

level, at any phase of life. I'm glad Phil had such a dazzling career, appreciate his work, and mourn for him

and with his wife and three kids.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

He was a fantastic actor. All of us suffer from personal demons, and unfortunately he was beaten by his. It is a tragedy, no matter how you slice it. Opiate addiction is a growing problem and this sort of mishap in my view clearly underscores the futility of the "War on Drugs". RIP.

 

[drwatson]

brdavidson +1000
Very good actor! Too bad it wasnt Justin Bieber instead... :rofl: It's a joke people the Dr. wouldnt wish anyone bad vibes.
Oddly I like him in Twister the best, just a fun movie. Unreal at times, but still fun!

 

[warren]

I do indeed tend to see the world in black and white. Not a fan of situational ethics either. There's right and wrong and very little room between the two. While I may not always do the right, not correct, thing I do know the difference between right and wrong and try mightily to do the right thing.
This dead actor was engaging in behavior which benefited the bad guys. People who would like nothing better than to get my daughter, my grandchildren, etc. using their products. He may have been a great actor, but he was, more importantly, a participant in the drug business and therefore a threat to me and mine. I can empathize with his problems, I understand he had demons, we all do, but his behavior endangered me and mine. So, no sympathy except to his survivors, and absolutely not a thought to his demise.
As for my addiction to nicotine, I readily admit it. I made a conscious decision years ago, kept to it after all the evidence was in and, should the worst occur, would not expect nor would accept sympathy for my plight.

 

[metalmilitia]

he was one of my favorites. when my wife broke the news, she started the sentence with "ur gonna be pissed". drugs get their hooks in u, man.