RIP Fitzgerald Crew Members

[mso489]

I don't think the Navy will let it pass, and probably not the Coast Guard which I think is doing an investigation, nor the insurance companies which answer to their stock holders. It will take a year before reports and indictments emerge, but I think they will. I think this will end the careers of some commissioned officers on and off the ship, and maybe revocation of licenses of container ship officers, and maybe some trials for officers and men. Scapegoating is a problem, but some officers on the destroyer and probably several enlisted men are definitely facing trial. The Navy is in the process of bidding for major expenditures on new ships, and this tragic accident is not a selling point.

 

[dread]

I was a a SWO in the navy fro 10 years. That's the abbreviation for Surface Warfare Officer, also known as ship drivers. Doing what the officers of the Fitzgerald were doing on the bridge was my job. I was also a PacFleet ship driver of the year, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to ship maneuvering and the rules of the road. I have opinions and thoughts on the whole thing, but I'm keeping them to myself for now, and I think you all should cool it until at least after the dead are laid to rest. There is just something bizarre about this situation. It's easy to sit here and look at the damage and second guess and demand answers and do all sorts of things. Although ships move slowly compared to things like aircraft, you have no idea how fast things can go to shit when something goes wrong and it's damned hard to recover with that much mass moving on the water. There will be an investigation, and something will happen, rest assured. But more importantly the investigation will be used to teach us how to avoid this situation in the future. The Navy does not let these things pass without consequences. In case you haven't noticed, the entire Navy is in shock over this because it's so unfathomable. Respect the dead, celebrate the heroic and gut wrenching actions that saved the ship, and let the investigators do their jobs without armchairing this one.

 

[mso489]

dread, those are some proud attainments. I'd be interested to hear your observations as things unfold over time. You have some knowhow us one-hitch swabbies, trained to our niche, can only surmise.

 

[beefeater33]

The Navy does not let these things pass without consequences. In case you haven't noticed, the entire Navy is in shock over this because it's so unfathomable. Respect the dead, celebrate the heroic and gut wrenching actions that saved the ship, and let the investigators do their jobs without armchairing this one.

Good Words Dread........... Patience is key here. God Bless those that perished.......... RIP......... :crying: :worship:

 

[tbradsim1]

Drudge report says Naval ship ignored Containerships warning, ( taken with a grain of salt ) this is ??????????????.

 

[dmcmtk]

Exactly Brad, sounds more like CYA bullshit from the Captain of the cargo ship, which was reportedly on autopilot.
http://news.trust.org/item/20170626101937-6xsul

 

[jpmcwjr]

Why avoid armchairing here? Nothing we say will reach anyone who matters in this case. I respect your service and knowledge, and will to stay silent, but among all of us with opinions, yours would be one I'd most like to hear!

 

[bonanzadriver]

Although some of the comments here, thus far, seem somewhat misguided, they are most certainly a result of incredulity and or truly saddened individuals trying to cope with what happened to "Our" Sailors and our ship.
I agree with JP that Dread most likely has more expertise in ships maneuvers and maritime rules for ship driving and such. I also am a bit taken aback by the comments of "cool it" and "armchairing".
At the end of the day Dread, we're a forum of mostly grown men, all accomplished in our own rights. And though I look forward to your knowledgeable insight and input on the technical and legal aspects of what has happened. I do not need any input as to how to conduct myself, let alone being told to essentially "sit down and be quiet".
If someone here is speaking ignorantly or has misunderstood something in the chain of events. Be the bigger man and help them understand the situation better. Admonishing and speaking down to others is of no use, and quite frankly is in poor decorum and has no place here.
Just my $.02

ymmv

 

[dmcmtk]

Let's not get too off track here people. Dread, I can certainly understand your point of view......but would also be interested in your insights, if you so choose to share them.

 

[tbradsim1]

Dread with all due respect, I was in a unit that administered Deadly response to a credible threat, it bogs the mind that such a vessel would be in such Harms Way. Your expertise would be appreciated,

 

[cranseiron]

In speculative defense of Dread's response he was a Naval Officer for ten years and when a crisis occurs and rumor and conjecture start to fly everyone gets told to pipe down and wait for facts-- everyone maintain your discipline. I think his training just kinda kicked in and I'm sure no disrespect was intended. I was a commissioned Air Force Officer for eight years and cutting one's professional teeth at a young age the habits/training stay with you for a long while. Or, maybe Dread's just a butt head. JK :D

 

[dread]

I am a butt had, Cranse, but that's not particularly salient here.
I know which ship had the right of way if both ships were going in a straight line and there was no communication between the two prior to the collusion and that's all I know from the pictures. I also know lots of news outlets are reporting pieces of the incident, but none have all of the pieces, which the investigation will obtain. I don't know a lot of things. I don't know if one of the ships turned just prior to the colision, if there was communication prior, the status of the running lights on the ships, the status of the radar systems on both ships, the status of the watsches on both ships, the status of other material conditions on both ships. Where the accident happened is where I used to cruise as I was also stationed on ships in Japan. It can be a busy place with ships and hundreds of squid fishing boats at night - they use bright lights to attract the squid and it blinds you to other running lights. I don't know if they were present either. And until we know these things speculation is pointless. Also it is just downright disrespectful to the men and women of the Navy to suggest it will be whitewashed. It will not be. The Navy takes personnel loss very seriously.
But most importantly there are families who don't have their children, fathers, brothers, uncles, and nephews back yet to lay to rest. There is also a crew that is hurting. It could be very cut and dry, or it could be more complicated than that. I have been very quiet online about this in deference to them during this time. I don't know if one of those connections will see what I write and they are hurting enough without me spouting out my uninformed opinion.
Brad, in direct response to your earlier post, most of the time weapons aren't in a ready state because of the risk of accidents, which can be catastrophic on a warship. Look up Forrestal Fire on the web to see what can happen. Ships are also not manned in such a way as to keep most of the weapon systems up all the time, just for general quarters and for more extended times on various modified statuses. They only increase the threat condition when the environment warrants it. Straights of Hormuz, warrants it. Cruising in the WESTPAC just outside of the largest US Naval base outside of the country normally does not.

 

[dread]

Sorry for the typos - writing on a phone while traveling.

 

[perdurabo]

I'd heard that there may have been hacking involved, speculating of course. We will never find that out. Patience here is the key.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I know which ship had the right of way if both ships were going in a straight line and there was no communication between the two prior to the collusion and that's all I know from the pictures.

And it was which vessel?
An aside: From my time on the water, I always followed the maxim that the larger vessel had the right of way, as I was always in the smaller boat.... Do not mean to imply anything here as to rules of the road in a very serious maritime matter. But in a collision, both skippers are at fault to some degree, unless it was intentional by one and unavoidable by the other..

 

[dread]

The merchant vessel. But, a lot of the things coming out don't add up. The skipper of the container ship claims to have altered course to right 10 minutes before the collision, but that is the wrong direction and not in compliance with the rules of the road - should have maintained course or turned left. Makes no sense. And you are correct, there is a chain of events and both ships can break the chain before it goes bad. I have driven into sketchy situations where I didn't fully understand what was happening and just turned around to let things resolve. I'm really at a loss here thus far.

 

[bonanzadriver]

Ran across this from Fox News...


USS Fitzgerald crash: Navy holds memorial to seven sailors killed

The seven people who were killed were identified as: Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T. Truong Huynh, 25, Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24 and Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37.

God Bless

 

[mso489]

I think perceptions of fault will change as details are discovered and refined. Early reports are always full of error. The NYT ran front-page photos and brief biographies of the seven sailors lost. They reminded me of the crew I served with in the early 70's on a minesweeper. One was reported to have "found himself" in the Navy; his mom said it was the first time her son had smiled regularly.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Well, since both captains are at fault, and since there've been only newspaper reports, facts are indeed scarce, but perceptions will change if reported accurately.

 

[mso489]

I think one or two of the casualties was in his teens, others in their twenties, one in mid-thirties and ready to retire likely after 20 years. So much yet to do, so much life to experience. I was in the Navy in my mid-twenties, had already earned a university degree though as an enlisted guy I didn't advertise it, but there were long and various chapters of life ahead of me, much of it totally unpredicted and somewhat unexpected, so I feel these guys were really cheated by time and fate. You do experience a lot and see the world on a Navy ship, so I hope that compensated in a small way. They had GI Bill to go to re-boot for future careers, or some had careers in the Navy, maybe some commissions to earn as boot-strappers or warrant officer status. People see a white-hat sailor and just think it's a rowdy neighborhood, but you don't know who that is. Here's to the guy's who are gone, and to their shipmates and everyone at sea.