Rich's Cigar Shop and Lackluster Customer Service
- Thread starter BiginV3gas
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I agree that the shipper should be accountable. The problem was that the seller initially left it for me to solve, and I couldn't get a resolution through UPS. Now that I've experienced it, I believe that UPS sabotages it's own claim process so that the claims can't be filed. That may sound outrageous, but you should've seen the reason that the claim button wouldn't submit. It claimed that my description of the lost item was inadequate and that I should have provided measurements. How do you provide dimensional measurements for a bag of loose pipe tobacco, in a shipping carton that I've never seen? The claim portion wasn't a field in which you provided measurements. It was a text box in which you were to type your description of the item. They also won't process claims by phone: they force you to use their non-working online system.
Because the seller was paid to get the goods into your hands, including dealing with the carrier. That's the law in most, if not all, of the United States.
You can of course change the deal with the seller. You can say to seller, don't worry about delivery, I'll pay UPS directly to come pick it up from you and bring it to me. In that case, the risk of loss passes to you after the seller hands the goods to UPS. Most of us won't make that deal.
Dunno. Let's change the scenario a bit; let's say the package of loose tobacco actually makes it to your mailbox, but your kid gets the mail during a storm and it blows away. Is that on the seller?
Like I say, just a matter of perspective; either position is probably defensible. *To me*, the seller fulfilled their obligation by shipping it. The same as they would have by bagging it up and handing it to you in person; if something happens after that, it doesn't really seem *to me* to be their responsibility.
I have no doubt that the UPS claim process is terrible. Another option is to get the Better Business Bureau involved. I've only done it twice, and it was astounding to see the change in behavior from the seller I was dealing with (UPS in your case.). I have no idea why the BBB has any real sway with sellers - both Fortune 500 corporations even - but man, evidence says they do.
The mailbox hypothetical has nothing to do with this situation. Post-delivery issue.
If all sellers had to do to was take the money and all the risk was then on the buyer, long distance ordering of goods would have broken down decades ago.
It’s really not a matter of perspective.
No more free legal advice for you. Hey mods, how do I delete my post?
"I believe that UPS sabotages it's own claim process so that the claims can't be filed."
I had an issue with UPS last year in which the wrong package was delivered. After going through the online process and trying to make contact with them by phone, I became convinced that their internal contact system was designed specifically to eliminate any possibility of actually making contact with them.
I had an issue with UPS last year in which the wrong package was delivered. After going through the online process and trying to make contact with them by phone, I became convinced that their internal contact system was designed specifically to eliminate any possibility of actually making contact with them.
This is the first stop if a vendor can’t, or won’t help. Next thread.
Wouldn’t the seller give you the dimensions? If that was the only issue it doesn’t sound unreasonable for UPS to want to have a description of the box. In any event the shop made good so they did the right thing in the end and UPS is the shop’s to deal with and all is well.
It’s the party that sells & ships that also insures the package. Its their burden to deal with the shipper until the package is actually delivered.
In similar situations- but not involving tobacco- the seller always refunded my money after sufficient time had passed. Sometimes packages can show up way later than they should. I’ve had them arrive 10-14days after the original estimated arrival date. So something that should have arrived in 3-5 days took 2 weeks. Tracking information during this time was completely unavailable. The package finally just showed up one day.
Mac
In similar situations- but not involving tobacco- the seller always refunded my money after sufficient time had passed. Sometimes packages can show up way later than they should. I’ve had them arrive 10-14days after the original estimated arrival date. So something that should have arrived in 3-5 days took 2 weeks. Tracking information during this time was completely unavailable. The package finally just showed up one day.
Mac
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I'm glad that you've been made whole on this transaction. As a receiver I don't deal with the shipping company, the seller is responsible for delivery to my door. The shipping company is contracted with the seller failures in delivery are their problem, not mine, to sort out. Failing satisfaction from the seller I would have gone straight to the CC company. When the seller tries to advise me to contact the shipper directly I respond that I will be contacting the CC company.
A bit off topic, these types of posts cause me to wonder what the failure rate is for a carrier like UPS. The latest figures I could find using Google indicates that UPS delivers >21 million packages a day, a failure rate of 0.1% leads to 210,000 packages are lost each day. I suspect that most folks would be happy with an enterprise that delivered 99.9% of the time, unless of course you happen to be in the minority.
A bit off topic, these types of posts cause me to wonder what the failure rate is for a carrier like UPS. The latest figures I could find using Google indicates that UPS delivers >21 million packages a day, a failure rate of 0.1% leads to 210,000 packages are lost each day. I suspect that most folks would be happy with an enterprise that delivered 99.9% of the time, unless of course you happen to be in the minority.
As an aside - I know they don’t stock every product in this category- but this is one reason I like dealing with SP. They take care of their customers.
Mac
Mac
Like I said. Zero assistance in dealing with UPS from the vendor.
Huh? When did I ask for free legal advice? Given that this is an area where you typically get what you pay for, why would I WANT free legal advice?
If y'all don't like my first analogy, let's focus on the second which I agree is better: seller bags something up and hands it to you, but something happens to it outside their door. Are they responsible?
The seller didn't lose the package here, they did exactly what they were paid to do. UPS lost it.
I don't doubt it can be argued either way; heck, you can sue anyone at any time for any thing. I'm talking more in a common sense perspective. It doesn't really make sense *to me* to blame the seller for an error of the shipper.
Ideally, the shipper should be held accountable for any failure to deliver, and I pay insurance to the USPS when I send something of value. Too bad they have a record of not honoring that insurance.Huh? When did I ask for free legal advice? Given that this is an area where you typically get what you pay for, why would I WANT free legal advice?
If y'all don't like my first analogy, let's focus on the second which I agree is better: seller bags something up and hands it to you, but something happens to it outside their door. Are they responsible?
The seller didn't lose the package here, they did exactly what they were paid to do. UPS lost it.
I don't doubt it can be argued either way; heck, you can sue anyone at any time for any thing. I'm talking more in a common sense perspective. It doesn't really make sense *to me* to blame the seller for an error of the shipper.
It can also be said that the merchant has some responsibility with this as they decide what service to use and to accept mail or phone orders in the first place. In the case of Esterval's their choice of shipping method lead to a number of shipments being lost. They did nothing to alert any customer to any risk involved.
Due to help from a member here, they changed their shipping method and since then there have been minimal issues.
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Why not? Who made the contract with the shipper? The vendor. It's the seller's responsibility to complete his contract with the buyer, not the shipper's.
Wrong situation. If the buyer's kid mess it up, it's buyer's problem. Situation where item promised was not delivered is seller's issue until the said item is with buyer or someone representing buyer. That's how it works in US in almost all situations.