Ribbon v Flake and Plug in Nic Hit

[cosmicfolklore]

What is it that makes a plug or flake stronger in nicotine content than the loose or ribbon versions? In talk about the new War Horse, everyone is in agreeance that making the blend a bar or plug will increase the nicotine to more manly proportions. And, I notice that in Erinmore the mixture is not as strong as the flake. Does anyone know why this is? It would seem to me that if the recipe is the same, making it into a plug and cutting the plug into flakes should just be a compressed version of the mixture (or loose cut) version with the same amount of nicotine per weight.
When I smoke Erinmore Mixture, I pack it tight and full, but with Erinmore flakes I just fold and stuff a single flake. So, I actually smoke more tobacco per bowl of the mixture, but the nic doesn't hit me nearly as hard as the single flake. Does anyone have some insight into this?

 

[mranglophile]

I think Erinmoore mixture and flake are different tobaccos, I think the mixture has Black Cav. From what I understand we absorb nicotine depending on the PH of the smoke.

 

[aldecaker]

I would guess (and this is just that) that the increased surface area of the ribbon cut, with its increased exposure to oxygen, allows the nicotine to chemically degrade faster than a flake or plug. Maybe?

 

[jackswilling]

The Five Brother's "shag" cut leaves little on the table. I has to be primarily tobacco based as opposed to the cut or lack thereof.

 

[alexnorth]

I would also guess that it is more a question of the nicotine releasing in different speed or quantity.

 

[pitchfork]

I was thinking the same thing, today (in reference to the Warhorse discussion). I have no idea why that might be the case, but I sure hope the Warhorse plug is stronger than what's been reported by those who've tried the prototype.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The prototype was nothing to sneeze at in strength. But, with the bold flavor, it would have been nice to have had a matching bold nicotine hit. I just don't see compressing it into a plug as increasing the nicotine, without changing the recipe. Not that I think that I know more than Russ, but I ask in that I want to learn.

 

[phxrock]

I would think having the Blend under pressure with heat applied and using steam would consatrate the nic over time. It was stated on in production the plug would be stronger and fuller. I am glad the ready rubbed is not a nic bomb.
John

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Actually, having it under steam and pressure would tend to destroy the nicotine, just as aging a blend tends to do.

 

[phxrock]

I am not able to come high Nic blends nut, like Cosmic I enjoy learning something new. Cosmic I didn't think about the destruction of the nicaybe Condorlover can answer?
John

 

[cosmicfolklore]

...or Russ... or Woods...

 

[saltedplug]

Perhaps there is different nicotine in the different tobacco preparations when the recipe is the same, but I doubt it. I've often urged Mr. Pease to make a Cumberland Flake given my love of the cut version. Thus far of course he has declined and seems to have as a reason "what fun would that be?" He's more interested in doing something new. Be that as it may, cut does not smoke the same way as flake or plug. Even if rubbed out, it's my observation that flake still has 2 or more leaf thickness in those pieces. We know the recipe is the same for plug and flake, but Erinmore mixture is only similar to the flake; it is not the same, or so I've read; and getting back to Cumberland or a Haddo's flake, which Mr. Pease has been more interested in producing, it's my understanding that to make both taste close to one the original would require recipe tweaking, why, I don't know. Obviously the tobacco is pressed more closely together in a flake, but how that affects taste, I don't know.
And nicotine is a chemical substance, and unless the recipe is changed, I don't see how cut should affect it.
Everything is this post other than the absence of a Cumberland or Haddo's flake, should not be taken as fact. Just thoughts spun out in the way I normally spin them.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I am glad Cosmic asked this question because when I was reading the War Horse thread I had the same question but was too embarassed to ask it. In my own mind I thought it may simply have something to do with the fact that a plug, being compressed, is going to result in more tobacco per smoked bowl than a ribbon cut will, and more tobacco means more nicotine. I don't know. Waiting for an answer.

 

[condorlover1]

The trick to plugs is they should be made from whole leaf tobacco pressed and then steamed. Pressing a bunch of W.H under pressure and steam will get you a cube of W.H RR but that does not equal a plug but a strange ergonomically packaged cube of tobacco. The later would be a crumble cake as opposed to a true plug and that is why we have delayed releasing W.H plug as it has to be right or there no point in doing it. People who like the RR may hate the plug and vice versa but thats what makes for a commercial blend.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

So, the strength comes from the whole leaf? But, it's the exact mix? Hmmm... Excuse me, i'm slow and trying to learn.

 

[pitchfork]

In my own mind I thought it may simply have something to do with the fact that a plug, being compressed, is going to result in more tobacco per smoked bowl than a ribbon cut will, and more tobacco means more nicotine.

That was my thinking, too. The other day, I smoked some 3Ps or Irish Flake (don't remember exactly) and a little while later smoked a BIG bowl of GLP Cumberland. It was really noticeable, smoking those back to back, how much air there is in a bowl of ribbon cut tobacco vs. plug or even flake. I think cut is part of the answer, at least, but probably not the whole story.

 

[lestrout]

Yo Cos
The way I think about the compression conumdrum is by comparing stacking a pile of newspapers vs. crumpling up all the sheets and then trying to compress the wads together. There is a lot of air in the wads and you would need a huge amount of pressure to reduce the pile to the size of the original stack. When a true plug is laid up, in effect you have the single sheets on top of each other, and the resulting brick would be denser than crumpled up tobacco shreds that are then compressed - at least under the presses that the manufacturers have at their facilities.
hp

les

 

[maxx]

I can't contribute, but I enjoy reading discussions like this. Incidentally, I don't notice nicotine. Can't tell if it's strong or weak.

 

[misterlowercase]

This is a great discussion.
I personally don't think that cut makes much of a difference with N,

mostly burn rate and moisture content of the baccy would be affected.
The perfect example for investigation would be Condor,

as it's available in ready rubbed, flake, and plug form.
I've smoked all three and each variant, more or less, carries the same strength.
The most noticeable differences in smoking them concerns "the sauce" flavor and how it slightly varies with each cut.
The plug isn't really stronger than the flake, although the steam pressing does add a certain smoothness that can only come from that process, and due to the dense block form it carries the least amount of topping flavor, and suchwise has a more "earthy" profile than its sliced or rubbed counterparts.
But, regardless of cut,

the entire Condor family, excepting the Blended, delivers around the same N quotient.
::

 

[misterlowercase]

...in the above I should have stated extended steam-pressing with the plug.

I think the entire family is steam pressed, but more than likely the plug is steam-pressed for an extended period,

as per the classic manufacturing tradition.
:idea: