Ribbon v Flake and Plug in Nic Hit

[brass]

If one were inclined to perform first hand experiments, I would suggest trying GL Pease Jackknife plug and Jackknife ready rubbed. That might provide some insight.

 

[condorlover1]

Troy you are correct but missed out on the dreaded Condor Mild which is about appealing as smoking a badger fart.

 

[misterlowercase]

Troy you are correct but missed out on the dreaded Condor Mild...

I did mention it:

But, regardless of cut,

the entire Condor family, excepting the Blended, delivers around the same N quotient.
Same difference:

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/condor-blended-formerly-condor-mild
::

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I almost always fully rub out my flakes and plug cuttings, then nuke them. Even if I fine cut some of the ropes that I like, the burn rate is different, but they still pack a wallop of a nic hit. So, maybe there is a difference in some of the ready rubbed and the plug versions (ex, Erinmore and Erinmore mixture). I cannot attest to Condor, as I've never tried it. But, with War Horse, will the recipe change outside of just using whole leaf for the plug? It will be interesting to see whether the nicotine content goes up with just being steamed, which doesn't make much sense to me, but I have been known to be senseless at times. ::
If I am going to suffer the strong flavors of a burley blend, then there had better be a nicotine reward at the end of that burley rainbow. #whoremovedthecheese?

 

[misterlowercase]

The later would be a crumble cake as opposed to a true plug and that is why we have delayed releasing W.H plug as it has to be right or there no point in doing it. People who like the RR may hate the plug and vice versa but thats what makes for a commercial blend.

Will the current formulaic composition of WH R/R be loosed into the wild?
Or will it be further adjusted?
If the latter,

I'd suggest a name change to Swan Fart Loose Cut,

because it'd far lessen the massive expectation of a War Horse replica,

and allow more wiggle room for something unto itself,

instead of trying to live up to the legend of War Horse,

it would be more open to interpretation,

and perhaps be more forgiven for being yet another mild American style burley blend,

of which there is no current lack,

unlike the massive entity whom we know from myth

as the Mighty Mighty

War Horse.
Just sayin'.

::

 

[cosmicfolklore]

MLC, have you had some of the original War Horse, or is this based on reviews of the original? I'm just trying to understand the reaction. Not ever having had War Horse (the original) I rather enjoyed the new incarnation. I would like more nicotine, but very few blends leave me NOT saying that, ha ha.
But, Three Nuns still calls itself Three Nuns, but it's nunthing like the original. Or at least that is what every pipe man over 70 says, ha ha.

 

[misterlowercase]

Cosmic,

I smoked about 3 bowls of the Gallaher-made War Horse Bar,

only from the very good graces of Jason in Ireland did I have such opportunity,

as he so kindly sent me a full bar.
I gifted the remainder of the bar to Simon as I knew it'd be right up his alley:

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/gallopers-war-horse-bar-the-a-bomb-of-nicotine-hits
Somewhere along the way the notion had been hatched that it may be possible to reproduce it,

and I was an invigorated enthusiastic supporter of the idea and thought maybe it just might be possible and what a grand thing it'd be to have such a classic Irish plug available on the shelves again, especially at normal USA prices, I was near-ecstatic at the possibility of hoarding and cellaring such a beast to my hearts content!
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/make-your-own-war-horse-bar
Yes,

you do pick up on my disappointment.
I admit that my observations concerning the new STP WH R/R have been quite emotionally charged,

but that's only because I have quite a lot of emotional investment into it.
I want the whole project to be done correctly,

or not at all,

fearing that its name,

War Horse,

will become yet another watered-down example so thoroughly rung thru the ringer that it is merely a soft shadow of what it once was,

or worse,

not even be recognizable as what it should be.
It isn't just an old baccy put out by a now defunct Irish tobacco company,

but a cultural icon,

it still lives strongly in the memories of those yet still living,

in memories of their forefathers,

their friends,

their kinfolk,

and the very Earth itself from which it sprung.
It was a baccy of a very specific place,

of time thru the ages,

of working men sweaty brow'd,

of muddied soldiers in the field...
...it was much more than just a lump of tobacco,

it was

War Horse.
And it was of the people...

:​

Warhorse tobacco was sold in the black hut. When the man gave you your tobacco he said
”Here’s your horse”
and then he gave you a curl from a lump of tobacco on the counter and said
“Here’s your saddle”

:​

Around 1950 Granny Patterson died. She lived with us and had the upstairs front room, the only other room with a fireplace. Granny smoked a pipe and smoked War Horse tobacco.
I remember her in bed, cutting flakes of the plug tobacco into her palm with her little pen knife, then she would rub her hands together to break up the tobacco then pack her pipe. She always used matches to light her pipe. I always liked the smell of her pipe.
Once she let me have a puff on it,

God that was strong tobacco.

:​

who rem the wee dull dingy shop on the oldpark rd just past hillview st we called it tin lizzies it had a big long glass counter like a show case an it reminded of a coffin an i hated to go into the shop it was so dark it frightened me an i had to go for my da s half ounce of war horse tobacco
Then there was hills in tennant street an it was dark an dingy two old sister owned it an they would sit at a coal fire until someone came in an then they had a wee yarn with them lov these memories of all my yesterdays

::

​

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thanks, I think I understand your posts a little better. I haven't had the privilege of having tastes the original, so...

But, I wouldn't despair the efforts of these fellow forum members and friends. Maybe some constructive feedback would be better, but that's just my opinion. If they need help getting the bullet in the bullseye, it would be better than NOT getting a better re-incarnation than "just" another semi-strong burley blend. But, I applaud you speaking your mind. Too often reviewers just kiss ass and move on, leaving the rest of us illusion-ed that this or that is supposed to be good, when it's really just lackluster, like that crappy Three Nones.

 

[misterlowercase]

In my mind,

I think I've given some constructive criticism,

perhaps a bit harsh - although honest reviews were indeed requested by the Co. and there are already quite a few reviews online,

I had remained hush-hush about the project (upon request, which I adhered to) and the pins 'n needles of intense anticipation just kept building and building,

until that fateful day when I sampled what was said to be "War Horse"...
...but a negative counterbalance may perhaps prod errant perspectives better to go full fathom five with their efforts,

sometimes it does, sometimes it don't,

and perhaps such a gauntlet does give forth a challenge,

and some people respond with a renewed vigor,

like hopefully,

STP will be saying

We'll show MLC just exactly how wrong he is and he won't be able to deny it.

That is what I hope.
I'm a bit of an over-romantic idealist.
btw

my initial response and obligatory review of the STP WH R/R is here:

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/the-standard-tobacco-co-of-pa-at-the-wg-pipe-club#post-840622
:idea:

:!:

 

[misterlowercase]

Erratum
I got confused and inverted what I actually meant in an earlier post,

here is the correction and how it should read:

Will STP's WH R/R be further adjusted?
Or will the current formulaic composition of WH R/R be loosed into the wild?
If the latter,

I'd suggest a name change to Swan Fart Loose Cut...

Got my former mixed up with my latter,

mistakes do happen,

I admit it.

::

 

[misterlowercase]

...and that is why we have delayed releasing W.H plug as it has to be right or there no point in doing it.

I agree,

but I can't take your statement seriously because so much wrong has already been done.
Why doesn't the Co. delay the release of WH R/R,

like permanently.
As in,

never.
It is as wrong as wrong can be wrong.
Crickets to my question,

so I reckon it's gonna go ahead and be released as I've read that the composition is "nailed down",

that's sad news.
Too bad about the delay of the plug,

can't the engineering department at

Standard Tobacco Company of Pennsylvania,

formerly The El Crappo Tobacco Company Unlimited Inc. ,

construct a simple steam press?
It's ancient technology,

dating back to 1873,

shouldn't be too difficult of a job.
Hey!

The Co. could buy the TM rights to the Meadow Foundry and just pretend like they have one!
That strategy seems to work well with the tobacco.

:

​

ALL CONTENT

Ⓒ 2015

misterlowercase ltd.

::

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I hate that a thread about bars and flakes verses RR in general has become a platform against a few friends and forum members attempting to get a new tobacco company off the ground as a grass roots effort, as I understand it.
But, it is what it is now. I have no idea what the story is behind how these friends came to comparing this new version to the extinct one. Did they have an aged bar to work from? Was one left in an anti-aging chamber? I do know that it must be incredibly hard to start a new tobacco company in light of FDA regulations. This is why many pipe tobacco companies have kept ancient equipment running that is inefficient and antiquated, because this old stuff was grandfathered in, and replacing it with food grade new equipment is way outside a pipe tobacco companies budget. So, I forgive them this.
Ultimately, I think that it's ok to be vocal against a blend or a company even. But, it's also ironic that no one is smacking you down, but I make a simple joke about how I don't like Sutliff and the big dog forum members all rip me a new a$$hole, ha ha. Oh well, that's the way the krumble kake crumbles, ha ha.
Is it fair to root for the new company and MLC's efforts to curb this new blend into a better version?
I'm still curious about cakes and flakes verses RR's. I wanna learn!

 

[misterlowercase]

The only question I want answered is why come out with a ready rubbed which is quite mild and has an American flavor profile that in no way whatsoever even casts a mere glance toward what was the War Horse,

and then still call it War Horse?
:?:

 

[cosmicfolklore]

...fair enough.

 

[misterlowercase]

I was going to just let this whole topic lay, but I feel that I do need to clarify here that my reviewing efforts have been in good faith, with no sugar-coating and without any apparatchik sycophancy, I felt that the brutal truth was what was necessary - my apologies if I've offended anybodies delicate sensibilities, but I have to be honest about it all or it ain't even worth doing.
And do note that this sort of response was what was asked for,

as per the letter I received along with the samples:

Find enclosed pre-production samples of the blends for your perusal. Please give us your feedback on our efforts, whether in print, social media, or in private. Our goal is to produce the best product possible; your insights and expertise in evaluating our efforts are greatly appreciated.

The fact that my asked question remains unanswered,

answers enough for me,

and says everything that there needs to be said.
I must now go forward and let it rest.
War Horse will live forever,

but it does not live today.

 

[pitchfork]

"I was going to just let this whole topic lay."
Lay what? Eggs? Bricks? Ha ha -- my kids hate it when I do that.
Anyhow, I think the reason for releasing the Ready Cut/Ready Rubbed now is obvious. A) It's almost ready. B) The others in the lineup are almost ready. C) The Ready Cut will probably sell more than the Bar because not everyone likes kick-yer-ass plugs that you have to cut with a knife. You (troy) want the original revived in a form as close as possible to what it once was. However, STP has several irons in the fire, and they want the fire they've got to pay for itself.
If the Bar is never produced, I'll be as disappointed as anyone, but from all that's been said, the Bar is still in the works. The Bar is the ONLY one of these tobaccos I have a real interest in, but I don't see the point in getting all riled up about it. That's my take.

 

[klause]

Troy,
I've been following all this with intense curiosity; as you know I am as interested in this fabled blend, and its historical importance, as you.
I've been thinking all this over, reading, rereading, then thinking again and I can come to only one conclusion: I agree with you, completely, and cannot find a single point to disagree with.
You managed to say clearly, incisively and decisively what I was feeling and thinking, but could not articulate. While I have not tried the new blend, I was immensely saddened to read the reviews as I failed to recognise even the hoof-scrapings of the Mighty War Horse.
I applaud your honesty, and your willingness to go out on a limb like this - not an easy thing to do in this, or any, tight knit community; but necessary.
If nothing else comes from your efforts, you provided the best laugh I've had in years - Battle Pony!!! The mental images this conjures will entertain me for days, weeks, months and years to come.
Cheers for that, and your honest integrity.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I cannot agree, only in the reason that I've never had the original. And, yes I applaud honesty and real guts in reviewing, that I applaud. I just also hope the "company" doesn't disparate the attempts, and/or improvement process.
Without having even hearing of the original blend, I liked it, but I too was expecting some nicotine. It seams that I read that Lane Tobacco was going to handle the processing, which sent up a redflag for me. And, in reading the feedback (more so than actual reviews) about how the bar was going to be stronger than the RR, was what inspired this thread.
Lane? Really? I just find that interesting.
Anyways, i don't want to disparage honesty. I just hope they take the constructive bits of what you've said.

 

[pitchfork]

Agreed. I think the honesty of the feedback is appreciated. I also agree that a ready rubbed version with a similar profile to the original is a totally different animal (pun intended). By the same token, a plug version without the strength is going to disappoint a lot of folks who would be interested in buying it, so just from a money-making standpoint it's probably important that feedback on that point is out there.

 

[snagstangl]

How I understood the reason for nicotine levels was processing. The more processing, less nicotine. That would jive with the idea that heat(processing) would destroy nicotine. I think rope tobacco is whole leaves that are spun into a rope. When I pull a piece of rope apart it unwinds into whole leaves.
I am thinking of processing is chopping/cutting into smaller pieces; steaming/heating; adding casing or flavoring. While these things do make tobacco more palatable, smooth, less bitter notes it makes some sense to me that it would be a reason for it being less strong. Hell why would they have to add nicotine to cigarettes? After the company has dissolved the tobacco and reconstituted it so it burns uniformly, the nicotine is probably processed out of it.
I didn't really think about how plug tobacco was made. But prior in this thread someone said it is just leaf on leaf, on leaf which means not as much processing other than pressing. The nicotine that is destroyed by the heat is overcome by simply the amount of tobacco that has been processed very little otherwise.
Think Tamboloka. Processing is take it out of the field, roll it up, put rope around it, let it smoke slowly. Very little processing.
I guess I cans stop pointing my back end at the computer and talking out of it now.