Questions for Leonardw

[cosmicfolklore]

Look guys, it’s like this… Sutliff lovers will miss their products, but Sutliff played a game in which they lost. STG is not my favorite tobacco company, but they aren’t the ones who laid down the bet. They merely were on the winning side of the table, and apparently they play to win… nit to provide a product that isn’t going to win.

I have no insight into the inner workings at Sutliff, but things I did see was a revolving door of CEOs and playing a game of “feel good” for a minority of pipesmokers in bringing back some codger blends that weren’t selling well in the first place. Probably no one thing led to their demise, but it was happening before STG came along.

I’ve seen things happen that have made other things I loved disappear. Salad dressings, soft drinks, restaurants… hell, losing McClellands almost made me cry. But there is one thing that you can do, if it’s as dear to you as all this… buy the fuck out of whatever it is that will break your heart to lose.

Other than that, you’re just pissing into he wind. Do you think that foot stomping and waving shriveled old fists into the air is going to sway a corporation hell bent on winning to make a losing bet? Of course you don’t. Take this energy and put it into stockpiling against your heartbreak. Because once they’re gone, you’ve lost your game.

I spent $3,000 in just McClelland alone when I heard the news. That’s not including gas, time, and expenses along the way. But, it’s all paid for now, and I no longer lament the loss of McClelland as much as I would have if I had just stomped and shook my fist.

Now do something productive. Grab that card and start buying. Or, start looking for a new blend. Whatever… Whatever better resolves your heart over this.

 

[Law]

Obv every single person is gonna have a different opinion/gripe so mine is worth less than nothing.

But I guess I just don't see why the sutliff factory couldn't have remained open. Obv one of the Denmark factories had to close. And even move those few best producing blends overseas and downsize staff too. But based on what you're saying there's still dozens of blends that sold over a ton per year not to mention all the limited/special editions which you prob could've charged double for and made 3 times as much of and it still would've sold here. (Cringle flake sells out in 12 hours then is being happily bought the next day on tinbids at $35 a pop) Not to mention the wholesale blender business.

I mean again what's done is done and i know nothing of the numbers so I'm basically just farting in the wind, but it seems to me that just nuking the entire US market other than captain black and capstan blue (i think you're gonna find that's prob gonna be the result of this) doesn't seem like a healthy middle ground even from a purely business standpoint.

I still find it difficult to grasp that the whole of sutliff brand/factory wasn’t profitable. Similar to C&D strategy in releasing limited releases in huge quantities and still selling pretty fast, I think a re-haul to sutliff strategy/vision with their sourcing of tobacco’s and market placement would make them pretty profitable, while also producing small batches for private labels. Wasn’t there any win-win situation other than gutting it to oblivion? I’de reckon even increasing the prices and eliminating most mundane blends would have been more understandable than the other option, which seems to be a reality now.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I still find it difficult to grasp that the whole of sutliff brand/factory wasn’t profitable. Similar to C&D strategy in releasing limited releases in huge quantities and still selling pretty fast, I think a re-haul to sutliff strategy/vision with their sourcing of tobacco’s and market placement would make them pretty profitable, while also producing small batches for private labels. Wasn’t there any win-win situation other than gutting it to oblivion? I’de reckon even increasing the prices and eliminating most mundane blends would have been more understandable than the other option, which seems to be a reality now.

Formulate a business plan, get capital, and jump on that hole in the market!

 

[Sigmund]

@cosmicfolklore I need that damn time machine. I was between smokeing pipes when McClellands shut down. If I could backtrack and buy a 50 cans of Beacon I sure would. That stuff is a dream. We dont have tinbids in the EU and I wouldnt pay those silly prices for it anway...but damn that was some serious stuff.

 

[Sigmund]

I still find it difficult to grasp that the whole of sutliff brand/factory wasn’t profitable. Similar to C&D strategy in releasing limited releases in huge quantities and still selling pretty fast, I think a re-haul to sutliff strategy/vision with their sourcing of tobacco’s and market placement would make them pretty profitable, while also producing small batches for private labels. Wasn’t there any win-win situation other than gutting it to oblivion? I’de reckon even increasing the prices and eliminating most mundane blends would have been more understandable than the other option, which seems to be a reality now.

As said in the other thread...perhaps just not profitable enough.

We tend to forget the cost of staff..and not just wages. Terribly expensive benefits and such. Jesus...I cant imagine being a tobacco company and paying the legal staff on retainer!

 

[NookersTheCat]

Now do something productive. Grab that card and start buying. Or, start looking for a new blend. Whatever… Whatever better resolves your heart over this

Oh trust me, I already have lol. But this is a forum and the most (negatively) exciting thing to happen in our hobby since McClelland (which I mostly missed out on because I was on hiatus/working 7 day weeks at the time)
And its a Friday so I'm here to discuss vent and (just a lil) gloat to myself for not missing the hoarder train on this one, finally lol

 

[Mike N]

I'll answer as best I can... and it's still going to seem like a big "screw you" and corporate B.S.

Below is what I posted on the pipe forum we host. It repeats a lot of what I've said on this thread:

As it pertains to the U.S. portfolio, Sutliff sells 988 items (including items from the Mac Baren family). That is a very, very large portfolio. For reference, the Lane portfolio, which does far more volume, has about 125 items. 700 of their items sell less than 100 lbs. annually. This is a very, very small amount. Only about 30 items sell more than 1,000 lbs. per year. Anything under that would be considered small batch in a modern factory.

The Sutliff facility is comparatively small, older and well suited for during short production runs for the U.S. market. The STG facility in Denmark has extra capacity and well suited for long production runs to serve the needs of pipe smokers in more than 70 countries around the globe. Plus there is the Mac Baren facility, also in Denmark, that is sort of a mix between the STG and Sutliff facilities.

So I was faced with a conundrum. Maintaining three pipe tobacco factories was never going to be a financially viable option. Producing small batch items at STG's facility will not work with our current setup. The other two facilities do not have the capacity to produced the combined portfolios.

Based on this and multiple other factors, I recommended that we discontinue the majority of the Sutliff portfolio. STG followed my advice. The Sutliff produced items that we are keeping will ultimately be produced in Denmark. The Mac Baren items we are keeping will also be produced in Denmark. No Lane items are being discontinued (we discontinued low volume items from 2018 - 2020). I don't have the full list of the Sutliff/Mac Baren items we are keeping right now, but will in the coming weeks.

So, not good news - even that 988th item is someone's favorite blend - but those are the facts. I did not take these decisions lightly. I knew full well that in making my recommendation it would almost certainly lead to closure of the Sutliff factory. This was indeed the case, and last month I stood in front of those employees as the STG representative when the announcement was made.

Pipe tobacco is a profitable but declining category. In the past 15 years, companies like McClelland and Daughters & Ryan have chosen to cease operations. Larger companies such as Reynold's, Altadis, Swedish Match, and now Mac Baren, have decide to walk away from pipe tobacco. In each of these latter cases, STG has stepped in and it is only because of this that many of the brands and blends we love still exist. As painful as it has been, I believe the decisions I've made are what's best not simply for my company, but for the long term health of the pipe tobacco category.

"In the past 15 years, companies like McClelland and Daughters & Ryan have chosen to cease operations."

Yes, but companies like Laudisi which are well-managed and have great brands like C&D and a fantastic website like SmokingPipes.com have flourished.

 

[AndyNJ]

Formulate a business plan, get capital, and jump on that hole in the market!

That...if there is one

 

[leonardw]

Since STG doesn’t seem to care about the US market, when will they be completely pulling out of it since we’re not a profitable market?

I suspect this might be a rhetorical question, but nonetheless, it is a question on the "Questions for LeonardW" thread, so I will answer!

The U.S. is the largest and most profitable pipe tobacco market in the world.

 

[NookersTheCat]

The U.S. is the largest and most profitable pipe tobacco market in the world.

"One of these things is not like the other..." Lol
I just... I just don't get it (See my previous question... Summed Up: "Why not downsize rather than drop thermonuclear bomb?")

 

[sablebrush52]

But there is one thing that you can do, if it’s as dear to you as all this… buy the fuck out of whatever it is that will break your heart to lose.

Other than that, you’re just pissing into he wind.

That's the crux of it. Nobody cares what you think about the details or logic of the deal.

I'll repeat this for those of you having difficulty with this concept, NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK about the details or logic of the deal.

It's a done deal. So respond to reality instead of bitching about it.

 

[pappymac]

This has caused me to actually count my unopened tins of tobacco this morning. My small cellar count is 80 unopened tins. I haven't counted the 25 or 30 jars of tobacco to see what I have.

I will survived the lost of MacBaren and Sutliff if for no other reason than I have exactly one tin of MacBaren (Sweet Ambrosia) and four tins of Sutliff:

State of Virginia
Phantom Privateer
Molto Dolce
Hill of Slane

What will hurt is losing the private blends that Sutliff made like Seattle Pipe Club and the various bulk blends I have purchased from The Country Squire and Watch City.

 

[seanv]

Yes, but companies like Laudisi which are well-managed and have great brands like C&D and a fantastic website like SmokingPipes.com have flourished.

None of us know this for fact but I do hope that is accurate.

History repeats itself, don't be too comfortable with any tobacco company hanging around long term.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I suspect this might be a rhetorical question, but nonetheless, it is a question on the "Questions for LeonardW" thread, so I will answer!

The U.S. is the largest and most profitable pipe tobacco market in the world.

So this choice of yours (as you claimed it was in fact your choice) was just a giant f-you to a good portion of that market?
I hope you get a big bonus.

 

[KK9Z]

That stat is just crazy to me. I wonder how many amongst us buy more pipe tobacco for smoking and/or cellaring within a year than these individual blends could muster in sales....

I know that I have bought more than 100 pounds since the MB sale to STG. Now that I have tripled my cellar it will be interesting to see what new purchases will tempt me.

 

[lordofthepiperings]

I suspect this might be a rhetorical question, but nonetheless, it is a question on the "Questions for LeonardW" thread, so I will answer!

The U.S. is the largest and most profitable pipe tobacco market in the world.

With how much you’ve cut from the American market and the fact you shut down Sutliff and aren’t interested in small batch blends which is very vogue in the American pipe market these days, can’t you see how American pipe smokers feel they are an after thought and aren’t a concern for STG?

Now I don’t know much about the business side, but I’ve never heard that Sutliff was doing so badly they were close to shutting the doors. It just doesn’t make sense to me if Sutliff was doing okay why not leave it alone? I could see condensing the portfolio a bit and supporting the big selling blends more, but completely shutting down the company seems to me to be something that wasn’t necessary. It seems to me STG looked at it from a broad global standpoint instead of just looking at the company Sutliff itself and seeing how it was doing in its own US market and basing the decision on that.

 

[seanv]

The dreaded double post.....in reverse

 

[seanv]

With how much you’ve cut from the American market and the fact you shut down Sutliff and aren’t interested in small batch blends which is very vogue in the American pipe market these days, can’t you see how American pipe smokers feel they are an after thought and aren’t a concern for STG?

Now I don’t know much about the business side, but I’ve never heard that Sutliff was doing so badly they were close to shutting the doors. It just doesn’t make sense to me if Sutliff was doing okay why not leave it alone? I could see condensing the portfolio a bit and supporting the big selling blends more, but completely shutting down the company seems to me to be something that wasn’t necessary. It seems to me STG looked at it from a broad global standpoint instead of just looking at the company Sutliff itself and seeing how it was doing in its own US market and basing the decision on that.

Profit ratios and share holder returns. Top line revenue doesn't drive the bus. A share holder wants to see continued value and more money in their pocket.

 

[WirelessSmoke]

I know that I have bought more than 100 pounds since the MB sale to STG. Now that I have tripled my cellar it will be interesting to see what new purchases will tempt me.

First of all, congratulations on being able to buy that much tobacco, but also having the space for it!

Excellent callsign by the way!

 

[Greg99]

I'll answer as best I can... and it's still going to seem like a big "screw you" and corporate B.S.

Below is what I posted on the pipe forum we host. It repeats a lot of what I've said on this thread:

As it pertains to the U.S. portfolio, Sutliff sells 988 items (including items from the Mac Baren family). That is a very, very large portfolio. For reference, the Lane portfolio, which does far more volume, has about 125 items. 700 of their items sell less than 100 lbs. annually. This is a very, very small amount. Only about 30 items sell more than 1,000 lbs. per year. Anything under that would be considered small batch in a modern factory.

The Sutliff facility is comparatively small, older and well suited for during short production runs for the U.S. market. The STG facility in Denmark has extra capacity and well suited for long production runs to serve the needs of pipe smokers in more than 70 countries around the globe. Plus there is the Mac Baren facility, also in Denmark, that is sort of a mix between the STG and Sutliff facilities.

So I was faced with a conundrum. Maintaining three pipe tobacco factories was never going to be a financially viable option. Producing small batch items at STG's facility will not work with our current setup. The other two facilities do not have the capacity to produced the combined portfolios.

Based on this and multiple other factors, I recommended that we discontinue the majority of the Sutliff portfolio. STG followed my advice. The Sutliff produced items that we are keeping will ultimately be produced in Denmark. The Mac Baren items we are keeping will also be produced in Denmark. No Lane items are being discontinued (we discontinued low volume items from 2018 - 2020). I don't have the full list of the Sutliff/Mac Baren items we are keeping right now, but will in the coming weeks.

So, not good news - even that 988th item is someone's favorite blend - but those are the facts. I did not take these decisions lightly. I knew full well that in making my recommendation it would almost certainly lead to closure of the Sutliff factory. This was indeed the case, and last month I stood in front of those employees as the STG representative when the announcement was made.

Pipe tobacco is a profitable but declining category. In the past 15 years, companies like McClelland and Daughters & Ryan have chosen to cease operations. Larger companies such as Reynold's, Altadis, Swedish Match, and now Mac Baren, have decide to walk away from pipe tobacco. In each of these latter cases, STG has stepped in and it is only because of this that many of the brands and blends we love still exist. As painful as it has been, I believe the decisions I've made are what's best not simply for my company, but for the long term health of the pipe tobacco category.

Thank you I know this has to be hard. I may not agree with your decision decisions, but I gotta tell you you stand up like a man.