Questions for Leonardw

[MavErik]

Unless I’ve missed it, I don’t think @leonardw has had the question posed to him about the future of the TobaccoReviews.com site. Its owned by STG now. Leonard please tell us that it will continue to exist and be supported. If it’s not, will STG agree to transfer the domain and all data to another entity that commits to keeping it alive and free moving forward? Thank you for being a standup guy and answering the hard questions…at your own jeopardy.

 

[Bassman65]

It's hard to know which of these posts to jump in on, but I'll try to address a few of the points I'm seeing here...

People are upset, they have every right to be upset, and nothing I say can, or is intended to change that. Be polite to each other, but moderators, no one has to be polite to me. It's literally while I'm. Yes, to provide some context, which is always going to read like damage control. But instead of venting into void or some anonymous corporate inbox, you can vent or ask questions to the actual person who said to STG: This is what we should do with the Sutliff portfolio.

Nothing about this has been easy or fun, and there is also nothing anyone can say that is going to offend me.

Regarding STG being more engaged with the pipe smoking community, I 100% agree. And from 2012 to about 2020 I was. I was at pretty much every pipe show up until Covid. I was less active here starting about 2015 because we started another online community. In 2018 the company shifted Max Stokkebye from my marketing team to be STG's first 100% dedicated pipe tobacco brand ambassador. He might have been less active here, but spent 40 weeks a year traveling and hosting events at local B&Ms.

But it's true that since Covid we haven't been anywhere near as engaged. Multiple reasons for that. I was running a separate division (focused on hemp, of all things), and more recently Max moved back to his native Denmark.

Everyone's roles where switched around again this past June, and since then Max and I have been pretty much exclusively focused on assessing the combined STG/Mac Baren pipe tobacco and roll-your-own portfolios. You can expect us to be more engaged in 2025.

Can you give any info. Concerning the Canadian market please?

 

[lazar]

Unless I’ve missed it, I don’t think @leonardw has had the question posed to him about the future of the TobaccoReviews.com site. Its owned by STG now. Leonard please tell us that it will continue to exist and be supported. If it’s not, will STG agree to transfer the domain and all data to another entity that commits to keeping it alive and free moving forward? Thank you for being a standup guy and answering the hard questions…at your own jeopardy.

Good question -- and if it does survive, can it be fixed? The search function is unusable as it is. For example, try searching for any given blend by manufacturer:




Most of them yield no results. It's like that with every manufacturer. It was a perfect example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Whoever modernized that site totally wrecked its functionality.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

I've been a pipe hobbyist since 2011, when I bought my first pipe and a few ounces of tobacco. While I enjoy the hobby, it's just a hobby for me. I only know a small fraction about the industry while others are avid smokers and have a vast knowledge of the industry. It amazes me how much knowledge some of you have about the history of pipes and tobacco's, and I always appreciate it when that knowledge is shared. I also understand why some people are upset about these types of acquisitions as there is the fear of the unknown.

What I do know is this industry is a business like any other business. Companies get acquired by other companies, and as a consumer we hope the decisions made will not impact us. However, many times they do and it's unfortunate. These decisions are outside of our control, and with so much going on in my life; it's pointless for me to get mad or enraged over something that I cannot control. For me I just move on, and find something else to enjoy.

When McClelland went away it was disappointing as I enjoyed many of their blends, but getting mad and criticizing the decisions of the Mike and Mary McNiel was not my place, and I understand the decisions they made. Even if that meant some of my favorite tobacco's went away. I enjoy what I have left, appreciate it and carry on when the last of those blends have been smoked.

With the recent acquisition by STG, I understand why certain decisions are being made though it's unfortunate that people will be out of a job. Losing some tobacco blends is an after thought compared to those that are out of a job. While it's easy to criticize STG, they are a business, and they're going to make decisions that make sense to them. Whether we agree or not. I appreciate @leonardw for coming on here and answering questions, and clarifying what he can. Again, the fear of the unknown is a concern for many, but it's out of our control. In the long run there is still plenty of tobacco's on the market and many that I've never tried, so if some of my favorites go away; like pipe smokers in the past have done, I'll find new tobacco's to enjoy as I continue in this hobby. Looking at the glass half-full, if blends I enjoy go away, it will allow me to find new tobacco's to enjoy.

Thanks again @leonardw for your time and information, and for the forum members that have a vast knowledge of the history of pipe and tobacco manufacturer's, thank you for your input as well.

 

[swan]

Tricky, trickier and trickiest.

But I've put myself out there, so let me try my best.

There is no single factor that drives the decision on what items to keep and what to discontinue. Volume (lbs.), profitability, regulatory status, uniqueness of a blend in the portfolio, blends that are essentially duplicates in the portfolio - all of these factors must be considered.



What will the global pipe tobacco portfolio look like in 2028? That planning has barely begun and no company would discuss long-term plans in public. And if history proves correct, whatever we plan will drastically change along the way. I think the more relevant question is: What will the U.S. STG portfolio look like at the end of 2028 vs. the end of 2025? Again, that planning is just beginning, but if I had to guess, there will be more brands and more blends in the U.S. portfolio.

Thank you very much for your reply, I understand you replied for as much as you could.
You answered about the MacBaren tobacco in UK, are you able to advise about the rest of Europe?
Specifically I am very interested in understanding if the HH line will be discontinued or not.

Do you know if tobaccoreviews will be kept alive, sold or shut down?

As for Sutliff, I think there are two blends I'd like to vote for the come back: 515-RC1 (fermented rare virginia, nothing else comparable around), 507S (stoved virginia).
How can we get our voice heard so you can also start collecting feedbacks on what to consider for a comeback?

I also want to take the chance to thank the admin who kept the post open and for all the users that appreciate the opportunity and kept the dialogue civil.

 

[leonardw]

Excellent statistic, but a question for a follow up is do forum users proportionately account dmfor a significant statistic proportion of online sales? How much do forum users drive sales?

I don't have the data to say for sure. I think it's safe to say that folks engaged in online forums are more likely to purchase online. The probably also purchase more, so if they are 2%-3% of pipe smokers, they might be 4%-6% of sales.

In 2011 (40 at the time) it never would have occurred to me to purchase tobacco online. I would have fallen firmly in the "general pipe smoker" category, purchasing a pound of 1Q a month, with an occasional ounce or two of English.

When we did the research back in 2014 or 2015, we used two databases. One we recruited, the other came from folks who had registered on the Captain Black website (this served as a proxy for folks who were more likely to be engaged online). Pipe smokers from the website skewed about 20 years younger, and were twice as likely to experiment with multiple brands/blends. They also tended to smoke less per day.

The good news is from everything we can see, the number of pipe smokers is increasing. The less good news is that new pipe smokers are never going to smoke as much as us old timers, who could smoke at our desks back in the day. It's terrible to say, but Covid and the subsequent work-from-home trend was actually good for the tobacco industry. 2020/2021 was the first time pipe tobacco had seen volume growth since the 1960's.

The long term volume trend, starting in the 60's and which has resumed, sees overall pipe tobacco volume declining around 10% per year. That statistic is what placed us in our current predicament.

 

[leonardw]

Unless I’ve missed it, I don’t think @leonardw has had the question posed to him about the future of the TobaccoReviews.com site. Its owned by STG now. Leonard please tell us that it will continue to exist and be supported. If it’s not, will STG agree to transfer the domain and all data to another entity that commits to keeping it alive and free moving forward? Thank you for being a standup guy and answering the hard questions…at your own jeopardy.

The plan is to maintain the tobaccoreviews,com website as-is going forward.

 

[leonardw]

Can you give any info. Concerning the Canadian market please?

Canada is complex and I'm actually not as up to speed. BAT actually owns the distribution rights up there for brands like Captain Black (which I believe had to change the name due to Canadian tobacco regulations).

Max is more up-to-speed on Canada, so I'll have to wait until he get's back from vacation to give precise answers.

 

[leonardw]

Good question -- and if it does survive, can it be fixed? The search function is unusable as it is. For example, try searching for any given blend by manufacturer:

View attachment 357649
View attachment 357650

Most of them yield no results. It's like that with every manufacturer. It was a perfect example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Whoever modernized that site totally wrecked its functionality.

I wasn't aware of those issues (or of Sentimiento Nacional). Max is spearheading the site going forward, so I'll have to get more info from him after the holidays.

 

[yardjocky]

I don't have the data to say for sure. I think it's safe to say that folks engaged in online forums are more likely to purchase online. The probably also purchase more, so if they are 2%-3% of pipe smokers, they might be 4%-6% of sales.

In 2011 (40 at the time) it never would have occurred to me to purchase tobacco online. I would have fallen firmly in the "general pipe smoker" category, purchasing a pound of 1Q a month, with an occasional ounce or two of English.

When we did the research back in 2014 or 2015, we used two databases. One we recruited, the other came from folks who had registered on the Captain Black website (this served as a proxy for folks who were more likely to be engaged online). Pipe smokers from the website skewed about 20 years younger, and were twice as likely to experiment with multiple brands/blends. They also tended to smoke less per day.

The good news is from everything we can see, the number of pipe smokers is increasing. The less good news is that new pipe smokers are never going to smoke as much as us old timers, who could smoke at our desks back in the day. It's terrible to say, but Covid and the subsequent work-from-home trend was actually good for the tobacco industry. 2020/2021 was the first time pipe tobacco had seen volume growth since the 1960's.

The long term volume trend, starting in the 60's and which has resumed, sees overall pipe tobacco volume declining around 10% per year. That statistic is what placed us in our current predicament.

Thank you for these answers sir. It is very interesting to see behind the scenes and the statistics of the industry

 

[leonardw]

I've been a pipe hobbyist since 2011, when I bought my first pipe and a few ounces of tobacco. While I enjoy the hobby, it's just a hobby for me. I only know a small fraction about the industry while others are avid smokers and have a vast knowledge of the industry. It amazes me how much knowledge some of you have about the history of pipes and tobacco's, and I always appreciate it when that knowledge is shared. I also understand why some people are upset about these types of acquisitions as there is the fear of the unknown.

What I do know is this industry is a business like any other business. Companies get acquired by other companies, and as a consumer we hope the decisions made will not impact us. However, many times they do and it's unfortunate. These decisions are outside of our control, and with so much going on in my life; it's pointless for me to get mad or enraged over something that I cannot control. For me I just move on, and find something else to enjoy.

When McClelland went away it was disappointing as I enjoyed many of their blends, but getting mad and criticizing the decisions of the Mike and Mary McNiel was not my place, and I understand the decisions they made. Even if that meant some of my favorite tobacco's went away. I enjoy what I have left, appreciate it and carry on when the last of those blends have been smoked.

With the recent acquisition by STG, I understand why certain decisions are being made though it's unfortunate that people will be out of a job. Losing some tobacco blends is an after thought compared to those that are out of a job. While it's easy to criticize STG, they are a business, and they're going to make decisions that make sense to them. Whether we agree or not. I appreciate @leonardw for coming on here and answering questions, and clarifying what he can. Again, the fear of the unknown is a concern for many, but it's out of our control. In the long run there is still plenty of tobacco's on the market and many that I've never tried, so if some of my favorites go away; like pipe smokers in the past have done, I'll find new tobacco's to enjoy as I continue in this hobby. Looking at the glass half-full, if blends I enjoy go away, it will allow me to find new tobacco's to enjoy.

Thanks again @leonardw for your time and information, and for the forum members that have a vast knowledge of the history of pipe and tobacco manufacturer's, thank you for your input as well.

Appreciate it. I've spoke with Mike a good bit over the past few months. Mary has had some health issues this year, so keep both her and Mike in your thoughts.

 

[Andre_T]

Make STG an offer to buy Sutliff and run it yourself. Then you’ve taken a meaningful action.

Damn it someone found the reason why I have been buying Mega Millions tickets.

 

[woodsroad]

I don't have the data to say for sure. I think it's safe to say that folks engaged in online forums are more likely to purchase online. The probably also purchase more, so if they are 2%-3% of pipe smokers, they might be 4%-6% of sales.

In 2011 (40 at the time) it never would have occurred to me to purchase tobacco online. I would have fallen firmly in the "general pipe smoker" category, purchasing a pound of 1Q a month, with an occasional ounce or two of English.

When we did the research back in 2014 or 2015, we used two databases. One we recruited, the other came from folks who had registered on the Captain Black website (this served as a proxy for folks who were more likely to be engaged online). Pipe smokers from the website skewed about 20 years younger, and were twice as likely to experiment with multiple brands/blends. They also tended to smoke less per day.

The good news is from everything we can see, the number of pipe smokers is increasing. The less good news is that new pipe smokers are never going to smoke as much as us old timers, who could smoke at our desks back in the day. It's terrible to say, but Covid and the subsequent work-from-home trend was actually good for the tobacco industry. 2020/2021 was the first time pipe tobacco had seen volume growth since the 1960's.

The long term volume trend, starting in the 60's and which has resumed, sees overall pipe tobacco volume declining around 10% per year. That statistic is what placed us in our current predicament.

Leonard, thank you for your insight on sales and the overall decline in volume. This helps explain to more skeptical and emotional folks the inevitability of mergers, acquisitions and eliminations.

 

[leonardw]

Thank you very much for your reply, I understand you replied for as much as you could.
You answered about the MacBaren tobacco in UK, are you able to advise about the rest of Europe?
Specifically I am very interested in understanding if the HH line will be discontinued or not.

Do you know if tobaccoreviews will be kept alive, sold or shut down?

As for Sutliff, I think there are two blends I'd like to vote for the come back: 515-RC1 (fermented rare virginia, nothing else comparable around), 507S (stoved virginia).
How can we get our voice heard so you can also start collecting feedbacks on what to consider for a comeback?

I also want to take the chance to thank the admin who kept the post open and for all the users that appreciate the opportunity and kept the dialogue civil.

We might have to get more specific when it comes to Europe. If we include eastern Europe and the Nordics, we are talking about 40 countries, 110 brands and 1,500 items prior the acquisition.

As far as what to bring back, we haven't gotten into the tactics of how we'll gauge demand yet.

 

[chilllucky]

Do you know the fate of the rolling machine and cutter at the MacBaren facility that make all the roll cake/small coin cuts in their portfolio?

Are those big enough sellers to move the equipment to the STG Denmark facility or are they all likely to be culled as too finicky to earn space in the combined factory?

 

[chilllucky]

I'm speaking of the machinery in this video.

 

[GardenStateoftheArtBriar]

nice thread

 

[Bassman65]

Canada is complex and I'm actually not as up to speed. BAT actually owns the distribution rights up there for brands like Captain Black (which I believe had to change the name due to Canadian tobacco regulations).

Max is more up-to-speed on Canada, so I'll have to wait until he get's back from vacation to give precise answers.

Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. I certainly wish we had access to Lane products.

 

[NCHARLEYRIDER]

I am grateful for Leonard coming on here and answering questions that all of us have been wondering about.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I am confused that 507C is marketed as 100% virginia, while LNF is marketed as a VaPer. Wonder what the thinking is with that?

My goat palate thinks they’re different. I don’t know if storage, age, etc come in to play but a side by side tells me they’re different.
Maybe my mind and palate are wrong.

@leonardw thank you for being available.
I’m greatly saddened regarding Sutliff, but it’s only because their red Virginia and perique blends are so markedly different than others on the market. That said, there’s probably 900 Sutliff blends that I wouldn’t miss a bit, but I’m convinced Sutliff’s red (as in 515-RC-1) is unique. For example, the STG made Peterson Elizabethan is to me an entirely different blend than Sutliff Match Victorian, and not for the better. The point is not about an individual, but more that the source tobaccos are completely different and unique to what STG or Laudisi use.
I don’t pretend to know much, but there’s more than monetary reasons why so many independent labels used Sutliff tobaccos for the base of so many great blends, and if STG could somehow still utilize that source chain the American market may stay strengthened rather than debilitated.