Punched in the Face by Virginia Excise Tax on Tobacco Products

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brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,457
14,074
At a certain level of taxation and regulation, the effects become more or less indistinguishable from prohibition (the Eric Garner story for example).

As to whether or not prohibition works, it depends on what you assume the purpose of it is. If it is to create black markets, then it does work...and black markets serve the purposes of the "system" in many ways.

When the term prohibition is used, most people only think of the history of alcohol prohibition, but we've had prohibition on many substances ongoing since then. The only difference is that it was understood at the time of alcohol prohibition that it required a constitutional amendment...that requirement has long been abandoned.
 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,191
States were missing out big time when state tax wasn't being collected all internet-wide. That door took longer to close than I ever would have thought.
Still is open. If an online seller of any product doesn’t do $100,001 on an annual basis of shipments to Tennessee, they are not required to collect sales tax on their shipments to a Tennessee customer. JR, Smoking PIpes and Pipes and Cigars are the only ones who, at the present moment, hit me for the 9.75% sales tax. Our other tobacco products tax is only collected from distributors doing business in Tennessee, not retailers, and not their customers.
 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,191
I'm surprised most of us can still mail order tobacco.
Emphatically agree.

First they came for Cigarettes delivered by UPS, etc.,from Indian Reservation based sellers but I had quit cigarettes by then;

Then states like Washington started banning shipments of pipe tobacco to their residents, but I did not live in Washington;

Then the feds banned shipment of RYO, snuff and chew,, but I don’t use Them;

Then Massachusetts outlawed shipments of flavored tobacco, including things like GH Rum Flake, to their residents, but I don’t live there;

Then in December 2020 with no warning, Congress passed an amendment to the Jenkins Act so as to make Vape products illegal to send by mail as of a date in March 2021, with FedEx, UPS and DHL immediately imposing the same restrictions, but I don’t vape.

Next...
 
Jan 30, 2020
1,683
5,536
New Jersey
Still is open. If an online seller of any product doesn’t do $100,001 on an annual basis of shipments to Tennessee, they are not required to collect sales tax on their shipments to a Tennessee customer. JR, Smoking PIpes and Pipes and Cigars are the only ones who, at the present moment, hit me for the 9.75% sales tax. Our other tobacco products tax is only collected from distributors doing business in Tennessee, not retailers, and not their customers.
Yes, but I also meant for a long time even just general retail online shopping. Up until maybe 5 years ago even the mega stores weren't collecting if they didn't have a tax nexus in the state. States have been slow to make rules to get more out of it across the board which has always surprised me.
 
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Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,191
Yes, but I also meant for a long time even just general retail online shopping. Up until maybe 5 years ago even the mega stores weren't collecting if they didn't have a tax nexus in the state. States have been slow to make rules to get more out of it across the board which has always surprised me.
Our legislators in Tennessee are very divided about raising taxes on anything. . They initially set the threshold for out of state sellers at $500,000 annual sales. A portion of the 9.75% goes to county and municipal governments. They screamed bloody murder, so the threshold was lowered to $100,000. But it took two years.

I made the response I did because some posters here still seem to think, and frequently post, that etailers that don’t charge sales taxes on shipments they make to out of state purchasers are in violation of the law. Most of them, by now anyway, have software that does this automatically. and they charge, collect and remit as the law requires for some states, but not for others where the law doesn’t.
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,692
Chicagoland area
Don’t forget the deeming regs that go into effect July 1 (barring a miracle).
Keep in mind. The taxes will only increase to pay for their pet programs( Most assuredly the funds ARE NOT being solely dedicated to Health Fund. Just based on each states’ spending of their tobacco tax revenues. Illinois isn’t an aberration, and they spend less than 2% on tobacco abatement, whereas it was the sole reasoning FOR proposing the tax to begin with? “It’s for the children”).
City of Chicago is WORSE, they used 0% of the city tobacco tax on abatement programs and funneled it into teacher pensions, deficit shoring, etc. And when the inevitable happened and folks stopped buying in Chicago and crossed into Indiana to buy, their was a budget shortfall and the pols decided they needed another “Evil” to tax.... soda pop. They tried $0.18 /liter and were soundly shouted out with disgruntled taxpayers that saw how they already squandered the tobacco revenues, squandered the $$$ from the sale of the Chicago Skyway, saw how they squandered the $$$ from selling the parking meters, and are quite familiar with their lies about the toll system (was proposed as being halted once the roads were payed for.... that was abandoned? They take in enough toll revenue to pay for the ENTIRETY of the toll system 10 Times over PER ANNUM.) They proposed the IPass as being cheaper than traditional cash/coin payment, and told voters if they got IPass they would see 1/2 the toll of the cash payers. That lasted 1 year, then they raised tolls on everyone. AND they reap the benefit of collecting interest on the $20 deposit fee.
Just take a look at each States Tobacco revenue spending, it’s anything BUT related to tobacco cessation.
 

pantsBoots

Lifer
Jul 21, 2020
2,099
7,334
Terra Firma
Still is open. If an online seller of any product doesn’t do $100,001 on an annual basis of shipments to Tennessee, they are not required to collect sales tax on their shipments to a Tennessee customer. JR, Smoking PIpes and Pipes and Cigars are the only ones who, at the present moment, hit me for the 9.75% sales tax. Our other tobacco products tax is only collected from distributors doing business in Tennessee, not retailers, and not their customers.
SP charges me sales tax and I'm in Tennessee
 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,191
As late as January they did not charge Sales Tax to Tennessee residents.
DA074F22-55CB-4882-8096-CD069B96DD77.jpeg
In February they did
C97F9994-6263-4ACD-BB08-D7B13E2E2823.jpeg
Simple explanation. They hit the $100,000 threshold and had to start collecting and remitting the tax in February. The requirement clicks in based on actual volume shipped to Tennessee, not how much you think you might ship.
 

bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
8,652
37,085
RTP, NC. USA
Too much money in tobacco for politicians to cut it out completely. They can still add and subtract. Although, in CA, they don't want any future generations to count, much less add or subtract.
 
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Bluemonter

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 29, 2021
161
456
Oooo, first post for this new member.
How exciting...

I understand that many people don't like to do business with online retailer P&C, but I thought I'd put it out here to my fellow Virginians that they have not charged me any excise tax. Just regular sales tax. (As of this morning)

I am not associated with P&C other than being a customer...
 
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Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,692
Chicagoland area
Oooo, first post for this new member.
How exciting...

I understand that many people don't like to do business with online retailer P&C, but I thought I'd put it out here to my fellow Virginians that they have not charged me any excise tax. Just regular sales tax. (As of this morning)

I am not associated with P&C other than being a customer...
Just be aware that you’re still on the proverbial hook for those uncharged taxes.
People’s Republic of Illinois sent me a notice back in February for taxes not charged on several of my 2020 online purchases. Not saying it’s likely that you receive the same notice, just informing you of the possibility. ** I look at it like the W2G threshold at a casino; I’m still on the hook for taxes on winnings under $1200, I just choose to let Uncle Sam do the work and prove it, rather than volunteering the information ?
 

Bluemonter

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 29, 2021
161
456
Just be aware that you’re still on the proverbial hook for those uncharged taxes.
People’s Republic of Illinois sent me a notice back in February for taxes not charged on several of my 2020 online purchases. Not saying it’s likely that you receive the same notice, just informing you of the possibility. ** I look at it like the W2G threshold at a casino; I’m still on the hook for taxes on winnings under $1200, I just choose to let Uncle Sam do the work and prove it, rather than volunteering the information ?
Possibly, yes.... I read some of that legislation that was passed, and all online retailers must provide the state govt with the detailed transaction, including name, address, blood type, etc ...

Big Brother is keeping tabs on us, Comrades
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,692
Chicagoland area
Possibly, yes.... I read some of that legislation that was passed, and all online retailers must provide the state govt with the detailed transaction, including name, address, blood type, etc ...

Big Brother is keeping tabs on us, Comrades
Definitely. And I’ll continue to make them work for those ???. I’ll pay if they can document proof, won’t volunteer that info.