It's nice to know the sky is falling. Just about everything said on here has been the worst case scenarios. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to go that way.
Prepare for a pipe and tobacco dark future - NOW
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I am trying to have a nice stock pile, I know it wont hurt me, but I found something I really like, I dont regret picking up the pipe, I wish I would have discoverd this hobby a long time ago, until that days come I shall puff and enjoy my tobacco and relish the collection that I have at the house.
In stocking up, I'd suggest variety. Nothing would put me off my favorite three blends like owning 800 pounds each. It's the prices more than availability, if you can smoke an array of the pre-2007 blends. The pinch on new blends will squeeze the profits of wholesalers and retailers and jack up the prices of what they can sell, in my opinion.
In my analysis, the ultimate endgame is to start growing our own tobacco, making our own blends, and swapping them among ourselves.
Once we step out of the world of commerce, we can bypass the parasitic government and its taxes entirely.
Maybe Russ O. will speak up here, but his plans to release his recipes strike me as an acknowledgment of this fact and a pointer in the right direction.
Once we step out of the world of commerce, we can bypass the parasitic government and its taxes entirely.
Maybe Russ O. will speak up here, but his plans to release his recipes strike me as an acknowledgment of this fact and a pointer in the right direction.
You are absolutely correct aldecaker! The people seem to desire a "nanny state" and that's what they've voted for pretty steadily since the formation of the country. We've always been blessed with a Federal Government which does as the electors want, albeit sometimes belatedly. The voters supported the country underwriting the railroads. Public outcry brought us national oversight of local schools. (I do find the fact that universities are starting to segregate races again after 60+ years fighting for desegregation, fascinating. And a bit unsettling.) Those who were on the wrong side (losing) side of those debates were simply swept along as the country changed.
There are always winners and losers, in spite of what today's "helicopter parents" want for the children. With regard to smoking, those of us who enjoy it are currently on the losing side in the arena of public opinion and politics. Perhaps as segregation is suddenly becoming acceptable again in the institutions of higher learning, so may pipe smoking make a comeback with professors in the classroom.
The people want tobacco suppressed at the least. Many would prefer it gone. It's so easy to be on the "right" side of the tobacco debate no politician wants to be on the "wrong" side and lose an election. We smokers really have no chance unless we can sway the majority view. Any ideas how to counter the widely held opinion that tobacco is simply bad in all of it's shapes and forms? I have none. It might run it's course or people might lose interest when another "crusade" comes along. As small as the population of smokers is today we might eventually escape into cloak of insignificance and what remains of the industry could survive due to lack of interest on the part of society.
It's tough when events make us feel helpless and immaterial. We smokers are just that today, an insignificant group, easy to tax, easy to disparage and easy to identify. And our votes are easy to ignore as most of us are not single issue voters.
There are always winners and losers, in spite of what today's "helicopter parents" want for the children. With regard to smoking, those of us who enjoy it are currently on the losing side in the arena of public opinion and politics. Perhaps as segregation is suddenly becoming acceptable again in the institutions of higher learning, so may pipe smoking make a comeback with professors in the classroom.
The people want tobacco suppressed at the least. Many would prefer it gone. It's so easy to be on the "right" side of the tobacco debate no politician wants to be on the "wrong" side and lose an election. We smokers really have no chance unless we can sway the majority view. Any ideas how to counter the widely held opinion that tobacco is simply bad in all of it's shapes and forms? I have none. It might run it's course or people might lose interest when another "crusade" comes along. As small as the population of smokers is today we might eventually escape into cloak of insignificance and what remains of the industry could survive due to lack of interest on the part of society.
It's tough when events make us feel helpless and immaterial. We smokers are just that today, an insignificant group, easy to tax, easy to disparage and easy to identify. And our votes are easy to ignore as most of us are not single issue voters.
Corporate America has a plan for you. The people never elected anyone. It's a lie. However this time it's not called religion. It's called corporation.
People from Pennsylvania are up in arms about the new tobacco taxes. Considering that Pennsylvania has been one of the most lenient states in regards to tobacco taxes for years, welcome to what a lot of us experience. Try living in New York or Washington State where I live. We've got horrible tobacco taxes, and have been the second most taxed state for tobacco behind New York for a long time. Plus Washington State doesn't allow the shipment of pipe tobacco and hasn't for a while now. The vendors that do ship to Washington basically say it is at your own risk, and if the state was to find out they have the right to tax the hell out of you. For those in PA crying about the new taxes; all I have to say is welcome to my world.
I too don't believe in the sky is falling BS either. Typical fear-mongering in my opinion. Does it suck, sure! However, pipe tobacco will still be for sale down the road, and though some newer blends may go away, there are plenty of old favorites that will not be touched. But the prices will go up... hello! Prices go up on everything; gas, milk, shoes... it doesn't matter, prices will go up just as they always have. Look at those people that smoke cigarettes. I remember when I was a kid you could buy cigarettes for less than $2 a pack, Now they're like $8. Raising the cost of cigarettes hasn't stopped people from smoking, and raising the cost on some pipe tobacco won't keep you from buying your favorite blend. Hell, people spend $130 for a package of Penzance. Now that's criminal.
I have hope that the legal system will play out in our favor or at least delay the FDA regulations for many years. If you recall cigarette manufacturers were required to post graphic pictures on 75% of the cigarette package starting in July 2012. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I see them at the gas station daily and I've yet to see any graphic images on any cigarette packages. Why, because RJ Reynolds filed a lawsuit back in July of 2011 and that case is still in litigation so until it's resolved cigarette packages won't be changed. I just hope that the attorney's working on behalf of the pipe tobacco and cigar manufacturers are as good as those working for RJ Reynolds.
In the mean time I will buy tobacco a little at a time just like I have for several years. I won't be hoarding any particular blend, just buying what interests me at the time of purchase. If you want to go into panic mode then by all means feel free to do so, but if you keep buying up all of a certain blend and create a shortage of that blend then you will inevitably cause the prices on said tobacco to go up yourselves (ie Germain, Esoterica blends).
I too don't believe in the sky is falling BS either. Typical fear-mongering in my opinion. Does it suck, sure! However, pipe tobacco will still be for sale down the road, and though some newer blends may go away, there are plenty of old favorites that will not be touched. But the prices will go up... hello! Prices go up on everything; gas, milk, shoes... it doesn't matter, prices will go up just as they always have. Look at those people that smoke cigarettes. I remember when I was a kid you could buy cigarettes for less than $2 a pack, Now they're like $8. Raising the cost of cigarettes hasn't stopped people from smoking, and raising the cost on some pipe tobacco won't keep you from buying your favorite blend. Hell, people spend $130 for a package of Penzance. Now that's criminal.
I have hope that the legal system will play out in our favor or at least delay the FDA regulations for many years. If you recall cigarette manufacturers were required to post graphic pictures on 75% of the cigarette package starting in July 2012. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I see them at the gas station daily and I've yet to see any graphic images on any cigarette packages. Why, because RJ Reynolds filed a lawsuit back in July of 2011 and that case is still in litigation so until it's resolved cigarette packages won't be changed. I just hope that the attorney's working on behalf of the pipe tobacco and cigar manufacturers are as good as those working for RJ Reynolds.
In the mean time I will buy tobacco a little at a time just like I have for several years. I won't be hoarding any particular blend, just buying what interests me at the time of purchase. If you want to go into panic mode then by all means feel free to do so, but if you keep buying up all of a certain blend and create a shortage of that blend then you will inevitably cause the prices on said tobacco to go up yourselves (ie Germain, Esoterica blends).
Giving people what they want is almost a sure recipe for the downfall of any any style of government. My country, the US is simply following the natural course of history. We've had our day in the sun, starting roughly in the middle 1800s and are now in a steady decline since, in my observation, the 60s. Humans! Gotta love 'em!
I'd love to be around to see what evolves next. Will it result from armed rebellion or will the masses simply resign themselves to some form of socialism? Socialism seems to be what many desire. Socialism is the nanny state incarnate. Only a few rich, many poor and a small middle class. All paying relatively high taxes while receiving mediocre in services.
Then again, maybe we'll buck the natural course, return to our roots of hard work (60+ hours/ 6 days a weeks a day for a subsistence wage unless one wants to work harder and longer than the next guy), ambition is revered and sloth is derided, vacations are shunned so that one may get ahead, people earn what they are worth to the man paying the wage, all the things people have fought to eradicate so as to live the "good life" without much effort. I really do not think there is a middle ground.
I'd love to be around to see what evolves next. Will it result from armed rebellion or will the masses simply resign themselves to some form of socialism? Socialism seems to be what many desire. Socialism is the nanny state incarnate. Only a few rich, many poor and a small middle class. All paying relatively high taxes while receiving mediocre in services.
Then again, maybe we'll buck the natural course, return to our roots of hard work (60+ hours/ 6 days a weeks a day for a subsistence wage unless one wants to work harder and longer than the next guy), ambition is revered and sloth is derided, vacations are shunned so that one may get ahead, people earn what they are worth to the man paying the wage, all the things people have fought to eradicate so as to live the "good life" without much effort. I really do not think there is a middle ground.
Ah, now we are calling out the evil corporations. I have news for you, corporations aren't sentient beings. Yes, they are treated by law as having some of the legal capacities of a natural person, but that is a legal fiction - an important one, yes, but a fiction nonetheless. In reality, corporations are just a nexus of contractual arrangement. Corporations are merely the legal form through which their owners do business. And who are the owners? Well, we all are. The retired teacher down the road has a pension plan that holds stock in Apple. Sablebrush has his 401k plan and holds Hustler stock. We are the owners. People. And only people like you or me can have responsibilities and the capacity to do right or wrong by our fellow man. So we can't lay our problems off on corporations any more than we can blame a building or a car.
The real problem, in my view, is the growth in government. Government has a natural tendancy to grow and expand and pervade every aspect of our lives. It is empire building for the madarins and our elected officials. And it is all about power and coercion, which is the natural enemy of a free society. It is about A and B getting together and telling C what to do or, in a taxation context, how much of C's money they want to spend. Unfortunately, neither the architects of the US constitution nor the fathers of Canadian confederation saw this evil. If they had, and valued a free society, I would hope they would have put a constitutional limit on the amount of money that could be expended by the government because I believe that is the only way to prevent the inexorable growth of government and the tyranny of the majority.
Take the US as an example. From 1776 until the onset of the great depression, federal government expenditures rarely exceeded 3% of GDP (the only exceptions were times of war, when it hovered around 10%), and during that period, I might add, we saw the largest gains in the overall prosperity of the average US worker. That is a fact; the historical record is crystal clear.
And where are we today? Government spending is more than one-third of total US GDP. This reflects the incredible growth of government and its intrusion into all areas of our lives and is anathema to a free society. This FDA debacle is just one of many circumstances where government has overstepped its proper role. Any hope of a true free society is dying, and it is death by a thousand cuts.
Milton Friedman lobbied for years for a constitutional ammendment to limit government spending to 10% of GDP and we would have been all the better for it if he had succeeded. He also called for eliminating the FDA, which I might add, I couldn't agree with more.
The real problem, in my view, is the growth in government. Government has a natural tendancy to grow and expand and pervade every aspect of our lives. It is empire building for the madarins and our elected officials. And it is all about power and coercion, which is the natural enemy of a free society. It is about A and B getting together and telling C what to do or, in a taxation context, how much of C's money they want to spend. Unfortunately, neither the architects of the US constitution nor the fathers of Canadian confederation saw this evil. If they had, and valued a free society, I would hope they would have put a constitutional limit on the amount of money that could be expended by the government because I believe that is the only way to prevent the inexorable growth of government and the tyranny of the majority.
Take the US as an example. From 1776 until the onset of the great depression, federal government expenditures rarely exceeded 3% of GDP (the only exceptions were times of war, when it hovered around 10%), and during that period, I might add, we saw the largest gains in the overall prosperity of the average US worker. That is a fact; the historical record is crystal clear.
And where are we today? Government spending is more than one-third of total US GDP. This reflects the incredible growth of government and its intrusion into all areas of our lives and is anathema to a free society. This FDA debacle is just one of many circumstances where government has overstepped its proper role. Any hope of a true free society is dying, and it is death by a thousand cuts.
Milton Friedman lobbied for years for a constitutional ammendment to limit government spending to 10% of GDP and we would have been all the better for it if he had succeeded. He also called for eliminating the FDA, which I might add, I couldn't agree with more.
Excellent Peck, just spot on!!
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have ~ Thomas Jefferson
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have ~ Thomas Jefferson
We, the American voter, tend to sell our votes cheaply. Promise us something for free (read: paid for by the "other guy") and most will readily, and blindly, buy into it. Politicians know what tickles the electorate and they cater to it.
Peck has a keen grasp on the American system and our peculiarities. We sell our vote cheaply and are easily satisfied. When upset we are easily and cheaply mollified. We've been well advised by many and refused to heed many warnings. The current situation is of our own selfish doing. No one to blame but ourselves. Politicians tell us what we want to hear, give us "free" stuff, reassure us over and over (usually with half truths) and we can't re-elect them fast enough. I really can't blame them for our often demonstrated gullibility.
Both parties love big government and the trappings that come with the offices. We love our elected officials when they bring back big gifts to the state and reelect them regardless of their political beliefs. We created the problem, we either learn to live with it or find a method of changing it. It'll be painful to change for those on the dole, government workers at all levels, deserving and undeserving needy, those in the private sector paid with grants, etc.
Quite frankly I doubt the American people are up to it. And, there are many Americans quite satisfied with the status quo.
Peck has a keen grasp on the American system and our peculiarities. We sell our vote cheaply and are easily satisfied. When upset we are easily and cheaply mollified. We've been well advised by many and refused to heed many warnings. The current situation is of our own selfish doing. No one to blame but ourselves. Politicians tell us what we want to hear, give us "free" stuff, reassure us over and over (usually with half truths) and we can't re-elect them fast enough. I really can't blame them for our often demonstrated gullibility.
Both parties love big government and the trappings that come with the offices. We love our elected officials when they bring back big gifts to the state and reelect them regardless of their political beliefs. We created the problem, we either learn to live with it or find a method of changing it. It'll be painful to change for those on the dole, government workers at all levels, deserving and undeserving needy, those in the private sector paid with grants, etc.
Quite frankly I doubt the American people are up to it. And, there are many Americans quite satisfied with the status quo.
Warren, and that's the other fly in the ointment. Money. I'm in a "battleground" state, Nevada, and the parties have already paid over $7 million for ads for one Senate seat. Pablum for the masses.
The big money is that which your Congressional delegation bring home. That's the vote buying money. Ad buys are chicken feed. How much of other states' moneys can your guys bring into the state, that's the real measuring stick when it comes to perceived effectiveness. If Nevada pays a billion in taxes total and Reid brings back two and a half billion for dams or what not, Nevada will reelect him over and over. It's the same for any state which reaps more than it pays out.
Alaska used to reap much more than we paid out. We got moneys from New York, West Virginia, etc. and praised our reps all the while decrying big government. My state is probably the most socialist in the Union with the Permanent Fund. And that's on top of the programs from the Feds which use your money to pay for Alaska Native health care, highways which do not connect to any other state. Well, the Alaska Highway which runs through Canada and is built and maintained by US dollars with no Canadian financial burden provides a corridor. My friends in Whitehorse thank me every time I visit for the great highway running across the Yukon Territory and across northern British Columbia. It's the major artery for the Yukon at no cost to Canada or the Yukon Territory.
Alaska used to reap much more than we paid out. We got moneys from New York, West Virginia, etc. and praised our reps all the while decrying big government. My state is probably the most socialist in the Union with the Permanent Fund. And that's on top of the programs from the Feds which use your money to pay for Alaska Native health care, highways which do not connect to any other state. Well, the Alaska Highway which runs through Canada and is built and maintained by US dollars with no Canadian financial burden provides a corridor. My friends in Whitehorse thank me every time I visit for the great highway running across the Yukon Territory and across northern British Columbia. It's the major artery for the Yukon at no cost to Canada or the Yukon Territory.
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