Pipe Tobacco is no Good Anymore/Better Than Before

[Zamora]

It's like old Coke or new Coke. It's what you are used to. Many kids are fine with new Levi's. I hate all those stretch jeans. 70s were better.

Yeah I'm not going to avoid trying a blend just because longtime smokers say it sucks now, hell there's still a few things made by STG I want to try (notably Escudo) though my priority is supporting their remaining competition. I've enjoyed a lot of things in general that people say aren't good anymore, I just go into it knowing that most of the hype is for the previous iteration. My favorite Scotch is Monkey Shoulder and a lot of people say it was ruined years ago, that hasn't stopped me from enjoying it so much to make repeat purchases.

 

[MisterBadger]

bullet08 said:

It's like old Coke or new Coke. It's what you are used to. Many kids are fine with new Levi's. I hate all those stretch jeans. 70s were better.

Yeah I'm not going to avoid trying a blend just because longtime smokers say it sucks now, hell there's still a few things made by STG I want to try (notably Escudo) though my priority is supporting their remaining competition. I've enjoyed a lot of things in general that people say aren't good anymore, I just go into it knowing that most of the hype is for the previous iteration. My favorite Scotch is Monkey Shoulder and a lot of people say it was ruined years ago, that hasn't stopped me from enjoying it so much to make repeat purchases.

In the oldest written work surviving in European history, Homer's Iliad, parts of which at least are datable back to the Late Bronze Age (circa 1,200 BCE), there is a character called Nestor, the king of Pylos, and he's a grumbly old fart who at every opportunity, goes on about how much better everything was when he was young, men were real men, not like they are now, etc., etc. I am sure the rhapsodes, the professional storytellers in ancient Greece, played up old Nestor for comic effect. It just goes to show how some things never change... except for the worse. When Nestor was a boy, Gawith's Black Irish XX was thick as an anchor cable, so black that light used to collapse into it, and women would faint at the sight of it. When Zeus chewed it and spat, the Tar Pits came into being but now it's so weak, children and monkeys roll it in their cigarettes... and the price of it! In my day you could buy a yard of the rope for a drachma. And still have change. Pah! Pass me the ouzo...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeah I'm not going to avoid trying a blend just because longtime smokers say it sucks now,

I wouldn't say that Escudo sucks now. I am just saying that it's not really Escudo. If you just want a pretty good VaPer with an iconic name, then sure, go ahead. You'll probably love it. But, just know that what is in that tin is nothing like what pipesmokers of old smoked. And, in knowing that, ask yourself is it worth the premium price that they are charging for those tins?

As I will say over and over, there is no better or worse. You may buy a fake Rolex in an alley that keeps good time. It might even draw some compliments from passers by, but that isn't a real Rolex... if that makes any difference to you.

 

[Sigmund]

Its really all a crap shoot and so dependent on personal taste.

I can certainly agree sometimes things are downgraded to save a buck.

Also Its certain that if a guy has smoked a blend for 10 years he is gonna be pissed if it changes. That doesnt make it bad...just different with the option of being bad

McClelland...yes, on one hand Id like to buy a boat load of Beacon. On the other, their signature flavors sometimes are a little distracting. While I wish they were still around I am happy there are also other choices.

You can only win if you are willing to be flexible. If you decide to be rigid you are likely to be pissed off.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Ok, so lets say... someone offers you the Mona Lisa for a mere $1200, and you all like, "Wow, what a deal."
And, when you get it, its this...

I mean, it's a pretty good work of art. It might even be better than most of the modern stuff that you've seen on social media. So, this is Escudo. You can enjoy your work of art. But, keep in mind that this is not the Escudo that has been hanging in the Louvre for eons, and your friends might make fun of you when you invite them over to enjoy your new work of art.
But, for God's sakes, it's not about better or worse. Enjoy the shit out of this stuff.... but you're not smoking Escudo, and we re going to laugh every time you say that you own the Mona Lisa.

 

[Sigmund]

@cosmicfolklore Please send me two of those. One in warm colors to match the bathroom.

 

[BriarBrook]

Ok, so lets say... someone offers you the Mona Lisa for a mere $1200, and you all like, "Wow, what a deal."
And, when you get it, its this...
View attachment 369136
I mean, it's a pretty good work of art. It might even be better than most of the modern stuff that you've seen on social media. So, this is Escudo. You can enjoy your work of art. But, keep in mind that this is not the Escudo that has been hanging in the Louvre for eons, and your friends might make fun of you when you invite them over to enjoy your new work of art.
But, for God's sakes, it's not about better or worse. Enjoy the shit out of this stuff.... but you're not smoking Escudo, and we re going to laugh every time you say that you own the Mona Lisa.

But wouldn't what is in the Escudo tin TODAY be the real escudo? Not what was in it 30 years ago? Are we having a time paradox?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

But wouldn't what is in the Escudo tin TODAY be the real escudo? Not what was in it 30 years ago? Are we having a time paradox?

A brand builds its reputation over the years for being a certain way. the when what's inside the package changes, it is still relying on its reputation for how it was over the years in the past, to sell what is in there now.

Otherwise, why not just put what is different now into a totally different tin with different branding and start over?

If someone packed some bright leaf into a McClellands tin and sold it to you for $100, are you going to be pissed? I mean, you bought it hoping to experience what smokers in the past were smoking? Right? Otherwise, you would call it fraud, ammi right?

I mean, if you just want any old shit in a tin, why not buy something else, maybe something cheaper. Otherwise you're a fool. IMO

 

[woodsroad]

Yeah I'm not going to avoid trying a blend just because longtime smokers say it sucks now, hell there's still a few things made by STG I want to try (notably Escudo) though my priority is supporting their remaining competition. I've enjoyed a lot of things in general that people say aren't good anymore, I just go into it knowing that most of the hype is for the previous iteration. My favorite Scotch is Monkey Shoulder and a lot of people say it was ruined years ago, that hasn't stopped me from enjoying it so much to make repeat purchases.

Man, that sucks.

 

[fireground_piper]

I don't buy a blend because it was praised 30 or 50 years ago. I buy it because I like it today. If I like 2024 Escudo, I'd buy 2024 Escudo.....not because people like 1985 Escudo. What a strange concept.

If all of the blenders abandoned past blends, consider that most US blenders wouldn't have currently grandfathered blends or significant equivalents available to sell at all. The US market would be been in a huge shit show without it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't buy a blend because it was praised 30 or 50 years ago. I buy it because I like it today. If I like 2024 Escudo, I'd buy 2024 Escudo.....not because people like 1985 Escudo. What a strange concept.

If all of the blenders abandoned past blends, consider that most US blenders wouldn't have currently grandfathered blends or significant equivalents available to sell at all. The US market would be been in a huge shit show without it.

Maybe, the FDA thing is definitely a motivation for companies to keep defunct tins full of new blends going.
But, Escudo usually bring in 25% more than similar tins on the shelves. This is just using one blend as an example.
Erinmore, which used to smell strongly of a urinal cake when you opened the tins, very unique. But, that smell never translated into the smoke. The flavor was that of Juicy Fruit gum, and the strength was full on nic hit that would set you down wherever you were. Now, you don't get that same smell, nor even a similar flavor, and the strength is very mild. And, there are others, especially STG bought stuff.

Now, when they change, they make years of reviews obsolete, and many of us use the reviews when shopping.

Maybe you don't use reviews. Maybe you can't taste the differences between a VaPer and an OTC blend. Maybe you care not one fig about the histories of these tins of tobaccos. In that case. Why are you even commenting here? You could literally smoke anything, and you'd be happy.

 

[sablebrush52]

But wouldn't what is in the Escudo tin TODAY be the real escudo? Not what was in it 30 years ago? Are we having a time paradox?

That's a very good question. "What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet." The point is that the name is meaningless and what matters is the person, not the name.

It would be wonderful if things worked this way, and that what mattered was the blend, not the name, but that's not how people work. People rely on labels to tell them what to buy and what to believe, and marketing tells people what labels matter, and conglomerates buy up independent IP's in order to market them. So a rose by any other name would not smell as sweet.

In that respect, since the label says Escudo and, perhaps, the customer has read up on the label and has built expectations, what's in that tin is Escudo.

But if the label is not what matters, but rather the blend itself, what's in that tin no more resembles Escudo than I do a Speedo model.

How do I know this? I'm one of those poor bastards that smoked Escudo regularly before STD bent it over a rail and started fisting it.

For me, it's not the label, it's what's inside.

However, for the more recent smoker, who's never experienced what actual Escudo is, this mutant is what Escudo is, because ti's labeled as such, and they may be perfectly happy with it.

In the end, what matters is do you like what you're smoking?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, if there is enough inconsistency that they can get away with making a couple of changes to the blend over a few years, what's to stop them from just changing the blends at whim? I mean, if enough people said that it doesn't matter.
And, let's say that you like what is in the tin good enough today, but then tomorrow what you get is totally different.
Or, you are telling someone that you can taste this or that in "That Brand" but when he gets it and tries it, his doesn't have those tastes there. Then he loses trust in your senses. Maybe people stop trusting your suggestions.

If we don't get some sense of consistency, we lose a major part of this hobby. It just becomes the luck of the draw.

 

[sablebrush52]

I don't buy a blend because it was praised 30 or 50 years ago. I buy it because I like it today. If I like 2024 Escudo, I'd buy 2024 Escudo.....not because people like 1985 Escudo. What a strange concept.

If all of the blenders abandoned past blends, consider that most US blenders wouldn't have currently grandfathered blends or significant equivalents available to sell at all. The US market would be been in a huge shit show without it.

You're in the minority. People rely on labels for everything and rely on the marketing that surrounds those labels. Therefore that 1985 Escudo review has an effect. That's precisely why conglomerates like STD buy IP rights. Much easier to monetize a known entity than to create a new one and sell that.

But as I wrote just above, what ultimately matters is whether you enjoy what you're smoking.

The only advice I'd offer is to ignore any reviews more than a year or two old, as what's in the tins keeps changing

 

[fireground_piper]

You're in the minority. People rely on labels for everything and rely on the marketing that surrounds those labels. Therefore that 1985 Escudo review has an effect. That's precisely why conglomerates like STD buy IP rights. Much easier to monetize a known entity than to create a new one and sell that.

But as I wrote just above, what ultimately matters is whether you enjoy what you're smoking.

The only advice I'd offer is to ignore any reviews more than a year or two old, as what's in the tins keeps changing

I can't help anyone who buys things based off of reviews from a product decades ago. That can literally be applied to everything one might purchase. There's no real logic behind doing so.

 

[sablebrush52]

Otherwise, why not just put what is different now into a totally different tin with different branding and start over?

Why? Because launching a new blend is much more difficult, risky, and expensive, than marketing an established IP. That's why companies like K (formerly known as K&K) and STD (formerly known as STG) buy up IP's and use them while putting whatever in the tins.

 

[sablebrush52]

I can't help anyone who buys things based off of reviews from a product decades ago. That can literally be applied to everything one might purchase. There's no real logic behind doing so.

Real logic? No. Sapiens logic? Very much so.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

What if you bought Doritos one day and you really liked them, and the next day, same looking bag, but what is inside burns your mouth?
We've come to expect some level of consistency in the things we buy. That's just perfectly normal. It would be abnormal to not care what the things are we buy. Maybe the McCheese burger has pickles one day, and the next it has tarter sauce? To say, "I don't care" become a little crazy.

 

[fireground_piper]

What if you bought Doritos one day and you really liked them, and the next day, same looking bag, but what is inside burns your mouth?
We've come to expect some level of consistency in the things we buy. That's just perfectly normal. It would be abnormal to not care what the things are we buy. Maybe the McCheese burger has pickles one day, and the next it has tarter sauce? To say, "I don't care" become a little crazy.

I wouldn't expect it to taste like 1997 Doritos. And I ate an incredible amount of Doritos in my life.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Ok, so lets say... someone offers you the Mona Lisa for a mere $1200, and you all like, "Wow, what a deal."
And, when you get it, its this...
View attachment 369136
I mean, it's a pretty good work of art. It might even be better than most of the modern stuff that you've seen on social media. So, this is Escudo. You can enjoy your work of art. But, keep in mind that this is not the Escudo that has been hanging in the Louvre for eons, and your friends might make fun of you when you invite them over to enjoy your new work of art.
But, for God's sakes, it's not about better or worse. Enjoy the shit out of this stuff.... but you're not smoking Escudo, and we re going to laugh every time you say that you own the Mona Lisa.

Made me think of the first “restoration” in this article:

5 Art Restoration Fails That Will Blow Your Mind | Art & Object

The following failed restoration jobs range from humorous to disgraceful. Some were so easy to fix, it’s like they never happened. Others have left masterpieces so irrevocably damaged that huge fines had to be issued. The rest seem to fall into a gray area, with members of the general public and...

www.artandobject.com