Pipe Show Etiquette

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pipestud

Lifer
Dec 6, 2012
2,012
1,771
Robinson, TX.
Steve: I really don't understand exactly what you wrote. Did you mean that if someone offered to trade you a pipe they owned for a pipe that was on display? Certainly if someone offered you a pipe of just equal or lesser value I could understand, but what if one person offered a valuable S Bang or other maker for a Dr. Grabow? You would not consider it? - Allan
Howdy Allan, I might consider such a trade, but I would hope that the trader would be patient as I considered such a deal. It might take me all of one second.
I can see why you didn't understand exactly what I wrote. As I look at it, I don't really understand what I wrote either. Kind of poorly written. Sorry. Actually, I am sure there are many private vendors at pipe shows who would love to do some trading and frankly, that kind of show activity should actually be encouraged rather than discouraged. So, apologies for not being clear on that. Other vendors, such as myself, are at shows to sell pipes (in my case other peoples), so, I'd not be interested in trading. I'd hate to go back to one of my consignors after a show and tell them that while I didn't sell their Castello I will be sending them a Dunhill pipe in lieu of cash. (-;
Pipestud

 

daveinlax

Charter Member
May 5, 2009
2,092
3,036
WISCONSIN
Proper pipe show etiquette means not setting off the smoke detector in the hotel room. 8O

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ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,999
13,031
Covington, Louisiana
postimg.cc
Consignment vendors do have a different obligation. The problem is, for the uninitiated, a buyer/trader really doesn't know this without asking. Of course being polite is always a good practice to avoid misunderstandings.

 

graydawn

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 7, 2014
164
1
I love pipe shows. I always expect the unexpected! The word 'haggle' is perhaps a bit harsh, but certainly there are all varieties of discussions that take place during the course of a show and both before and after the opening. The initial rush through the door is really not my style but each to their own. Those poised in the nuances of negotiation will find ample opportunities to acquire pipes, tobacco, and accessories. There is no hard and fast rule to exploring the boundaries of each vendor or attendee. Often a more private exchange other than positioned in front of a busy table will be more productive for both parties. An uncompleted transaction can build mutual respect and even a subsequent favorable outcome as the show progresses. Most everything is negotiable when respecting each others position.
Richard

 

allan

Lifer
Dec 5, 2012
2,429
7
Bronx, NY
Often a more private exchange other than positioned in front of a busy table will be more productive for both parties.
Gray
Sometimes even the most obvious needs to be expressed. An 'out loud' questioning of price in front of others takes the seller in a possibly difficult situation.

 

graydawn

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 7, 2014
164
1
Allan that is certainly a tactic that one might utilize however, the aggressive confrontational manner leaves the vendor with little negotiating room, and more importantly a loss of face that compromises a win win situation. Is a pipe or other item worth that outcome? How much more positive to be able to see that person later in the show and share a pipe or conversation and build repore.
Richard

 

allan

Lifer
Dec 5, 2012
2,429
7
Bronx, NY
Gray
I think you misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you in that a bargain hunter actively negotiating in front of other customers would put the seller in the position, if agreeing to lower price, having to do the same for everyone.

 

graydawn

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 7, 2014
164
1
Sorry Allan. Yes I misread your post. It might indeed reset the price point for the vendor.
Richard

 

kcvet67

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 6, 2010
968
0
Personally, my haggling would always be of the "Is there a package deal for two or three pipes" variety, but that is just me.

I've had good luck with this approach.

 

wayneteipen

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
473
222
I can only speak for myself here as a pipe maker and exhibitor at shows. I don't mind haggling at all. I'm a pretty laid back fella, though. Make me an offer at shows. Worst thing I will do is tell you I can't sell it for that low but I wouldn't be offended. A few things to consider: You're likely to have better luck haggling with maker's that are new to the craft or part-time makers like myself who don't make pipes for the money but have been making pipes for a good while now. I love to make pipes. I wouldn't love to make pipes if other people didn't want them. One thing to consider as a bargaining chip is that makers usually take a 50% hit on pipes that are sold to their retailers. Now you're not likely to get good deals the first day but as the show winds down 75% is better than 50% by my math. Pipes that are left over at the end of a show for many makers end up being sold to their retailers at wholesale which is typically 50%. You're going to get the better deals the last hours of the show. The risk is that the pipe you really have your eye on may get snatched up at full price earlier in the show. You have to decide if it's worth the risk. The collectors with the dough and willingness to pay top dollar are going to get the cream of the crop. Of course these rules don't work on every pipemaker. Some pipemakers have no problem getting full price on their work so there's no incentive to discount their pipes.

 

winton

Lifer
Oct 20, 2010
2,318
772
I agree with Wayne. Here is a special deal. If anyone comes to my table on Sunday afternoon of the Chicago Pipe Show. I will sell you two tampers for the cost of three! And to sweeten the deal even more, I will let you choose the tampers!

 

ocpsdan

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
411
3
Michigan
This is a very good thread. I agree with nearly everything, and while it's very generalist advice, I think it would be neat to provide specific examples of things that I ran into this past weekend as it may shed some light. Please excuse me if this is a long post.
I had a table at the St. Louis show this past weekend, and two events are outstanding in my mind that people think about and vendors sometimes run into.
1. There was a guy that one of the carvers I represent told me to use caution with. He knew this particular gentleman would be stopping by my table, was a fan of his pipes, and has a history of making really low offers. Okay, I says. Well, he did stop by my table and was looking at the pipes I was offering. I commented on the pipe he was smoking and we had a pleasant chat. He asked me if I could do any better on a $345 pipe, and to really consider it. I asked him to come back in 10 minutes and I would present him with my best offer. I work on consignment, and can't do much, but I'm willing to play ball. He came back, I gave him my offer and my reasonings (which I thought were valid), and he seemed to take it well and said he would consider it. Cool! After 20 minutes or so he returned to my table and offered me $275 for the same pipe. That's $70 dollars off a pipe from a maker that he already collects and loves, and he low-balls me. No, but thank you for doubling my offer with your counter-offer. I now know this man as a man who has good taste, a very tight wallet, and shrewd business sense. I'll remember him forever now, and know to proceed with caution. I wasn't offended by his counter-offer, but just couldn't go that low.
TL;DR: If you make an offer, don't low-ball. Vendors typically have long memories.
2. The second scenario was a pretty cool one. I had a pipe from a new maker on my table, and the man who had the table next to me was drooling on this pipe for the whole show. He asked me if I'd consider a lower price for it, 'sure', I says. He made an offer that was totally reasonable. He had some Lee Von Erck estates on his table that would make a neat offering on my website so I asked if he wanted to trade. Of course the LVE pipe was a higher dollar amount than the pipe I had, and he agreed to the offer if I would also pay the difference in the price; we danced for a few minutes and ended up trading pipes and I paid him $40 for the LVE estate I was interested in. We both walked away happy men.
TL;DR: For some people it's okay to ask if a trade would be worth considering. Personally, it doesn't bother me. Steve nailed it when he mentioned not to haggle with the pros. Just be prepared for a counter offer of some kind. Whether the guy on the other side of the table is doing it for fun or to try and get rich, just remember that in either scenario it's nice for them to come away from a transaction with a little meat left on the bone. Use your best judgement!
To add to what the others have mentioned, please be considerate of where you are in space/time. Quite a few guys I know who are vendors love a good chat.. myself included! But certainly NOT when people are trying to see what's on your table. Please be courteous of where you are standing!! If you want to chat, and it seems like the vendor is into it-- don't stand front and center at his table. Kindly move to the far left or right side of the table so that if someone wants to buy something, they don't have to look around you and your messenger bag, backpack, briefcase, luggage, or donkey laden with packages to do so. You'll know when you are standing incorrectly when you see the anxious 'hunted' look in the vendors eyes and a blanched skin tone. My other request is not to strike up a long conversation or continue a conversation when there is a crowd around that vendor's table. There is always time later to catch up and shoot the breeze; more than likely the vendor will be happy to chat.
It also never hurts to get familiar with a vendor you like. Personally, I'd be much more inclined to cut someone a better deal (looked or unlooked for) with an old friend than someone I've never seen before. Vendors are fond of old friends, repeat customers, and people who offer to buy them drinks. Our people take care of us, and we take care of our people.
The last thing that comes to mind specifically from this past weekend is a sad and scary one. Just an hour into the show, word traveled quickly that someone had STOLEN A PIPE; a pipe shape that this specific carver had only ever made one of. When word reached me, I was furious, concerned, and afraid in spades. Don't be the guy who steals pipes. I went from feeling like I was in a safe environment to an unsafe one in the space of a second. At shows, it's great for me to be able to leave my table and wander for short periods of time. I get to see what's available, catch up with old friends, and stretch my legs. After I received that news, I didn't feel comfortable leaving my table for any period of time. Luckily I traveled with a friend, and he was able to safeguard my table for my infrequent excursions.
---I'm going to get real dark for a second here---
I've heard stories of prison, and there are three kinds of inmates who have it the worst: Child molesters/murderers, women murderers, and interestingly enough, cop-murderers. Why cop-murderers you ask? Well, do you think the guards are going to stop the rape of a man who killed a cop? Nope. Heads get turned and that offender has the worst ten to fifteen years of his life. To bring things full-circle, if this thief were caught at the show... he would have been disemboweled and torn limb from limb. Not only would nobody have stopped anyone from causing him personal harm, but I'm sure there would have been a long cue to get in on the action. Don't be the guy who steals pipes. It's not the price that is the issue, it's the action.
---Sorry about that, I'll get back on track, here---
It's also a good thing to leave a table how you found it. For vendors, a successful show works in two parts: one part is offering things that people want to buy, the other part is presentation. I work awfully hard to make sure that my table is going to be presentable. Since my stock is constantly rotating, I make a mock table before each show to play around with layouts so my set-up time is minimal and efficient for the duration of the show. If you pick something up (something I strongly encourage), try and make a good effort of getting it back where it was. I'd much rather spend time with customers than fiddling around with my table trying to get things back where I want them to be. Don't be afraid to ask for a pipe cleaner as well. Vendors are usually prepared for this and I was pleasantly surprised I was asked for cleaners at the show for the 'pipe cleaner test'. It speaks well for the buyer.
The last thing I'll leave you with is an agreement with Wayne and Steve on their opinions. I think Wayne hit it pretty well when he mentioned the bit about the last few hours of a show idea. If someone were to approach me with a reasonable offer for a discount on a pipe in those last hours, I'd certainly be more inclined to do so. It's a good feeling to come home with a reduced inventory. It would make me feel better if I saw you a few times during the show and offered me something, because that shows at least you were honest about it. The stranger who shows up making an offer at the very end sort of comes off as a cheapskate. Maybe I'm wrong in that opinion, and in most cases there many have been circumstances involved in his/her tardiness, but that's just how it strikes me.
Pipe shows are fun, and I'd encourage everyone to try and make a few of 'em if they can. Nothing beats the selection and camaraderie of pipe shows. Cheers!

 

freakiefrog

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 26, 2012
745
3
Mississippi
Well after taking to a carver friend of mine I have come to the conclusion that there is a price point that haggling sort of becomes mute. I wouldn't haggle on a one off 350.00 pipe I wouldn't even consider offering anything lower than the sticker on a 250.00 pipe. I guess I was more wondering on that 400

 

derfargin

Lifer
Mar 3, 2014
2,028
29
Kennesaw, GA
I would think any haggling would and should be done on the last day of the show. Wouldn't it make sense that merchants would want to offload stock instead of carting it back home?
If a carver is firm on his/her prices then it should be stated as such at the table. I don't know why there's some kind of faux pas on negotiation. The last time I checked, the "S" in MSRP stands for "suggested".
Having said that, this isn't the market in Marrakech there should be some kind of decorum for your "less than asked for price" Translation: Respect the art and time put in on the product, and save the low ball bids for ebay.

 

allan

Lifer
Dec 5, 2012
2,429
7
Bronx, NY
Ocsdan
Excellent points made. I would like to mention that leaving your wares unattended sounds quite foolish to me. I'm going to guess that you probably don't leave cash on your hotel room table when you leave for the day, or leave your car with the key in the ignition-this is normal prudence. Just because folks have paid ten dollars to enter the showroom floor hardly means they are automatically upstanding citizens
I'm mentioning this because you may be new at being a retailer. And more importantly, a consignor of other people's goods. Leaving a table unattended is asking for trouble.
Ok, so maybe the Bronx in me is showing, but trust me-if it's not nailed down it could be gone.
@freakiefrog. - everyone has their own 'limits'. I think the most important key in attempting a negotiation of this type is respect and sensitivity. You can tell almost immediately whether or not a carver is interested in making the sale or negotiating a price no matter what the $$

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
2,088
910
NW Missouri
From this observer's point of view, this has been an excellent thread. I am an inveterate haggler, but I know that different market venues have different norms regarding negotiation. Now I will be better prepared for my first trip to a pipe show - I am hoping to make the St. Louis show in 2016.

 

kcghost

Lifer
May 6, 2011
15,141
25,688
77
Olathe, Kansas
If you are a vendor at a pipe show and you are going to get offended by someone offering less than the sticker price you are in the wrong business. You are going to run into the bottom feeder who is going to low ball you on price. They do this because occasionally it works. As harsh as it seems these guys do not owe the vendor a living. It is up to the vendor to protect his interests and say "No" and move on.
Probably the biggest thing is never be rude.

 

ocpsdan

Can't Leave
May 7, 2012
411
3
Michigan
@allan- Your guesses are accurate. I typically only leave my table to use the restroom, donate to the silent auction, or in the final hours of a show when foot traffic is minimal. Even then, I ask the people next to me to keep an eye on things while I'm gone so nothing goes amiss and return the favor when asked.

 
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