Pipe Pricing Bewilderment

[rdavid]

Say that 3 times while clenching a pipe!
Anyway, I just purchased a new Savinelli Spigot Sterling Bordeaux 122 from a large online retailer. It was on sale and coupled with my discount of being a silver member, I paid $140. The same exact pipe on three other major websites was at or above $300. Holy cow... Surely I didn’t get that lucky. I’m guessing it has something to do with the volume of pipes the first seller deals in? I’m sure there are other factors at play but I’m just bewildered at how there can be such a large difference.
I didn’t even realize it until after I bought the pipe. Out of curiosity, I did a search to see what others were charging for the same pipe and that’s when I discovered the price differences. I’m wondering if there might be a certain strategy involved other than spending hours researching prices. Is there a certain time of day, month, year that lends to lower prices or is it basically a roll of the dice and sometimes you just get lucky?
I have enough mainline pipes (for now) and a stable full of cobs so I’m starting to look at some higher end pipes. I’m aware they may not smoke any better than a $6 cob but would like to start a high end collection. Granted, I’m not looking at the $1000 pipes but am looking for advice if there is some sort of technique or strategy involved in getting better pricing. Thanks.

 

[ashdigger]

For factory pipes it's a roll of the dice.
For artisan pipes it's a completely different animal. Artisans, established artisans, charge what they charge based on the market for their skillset.

 

[warren]

Larger retailers often get a break from suppliers when they order in bulk. Some pass the savings on to customers. So, were I to buy on-line, I'd start with perusing the larger retailers.
That said, smaller e-tailers have lower overhead. Forget the above. :mrgreen: It's seems to mostly be a crap-shoot.
So ... no help here!

 

[mso489]

The retailer discount on factory pipes can be astonishing. I won't enumerate, but I am often dumfounded. Even high-end artisans will make the occasional offer you can't refuse if they decide they want you to have one of their pipes, maybe because you express a notable understanding of their work -- that happened to me once. That certainly wasn't something I intended in any way. SP had an amazing sale on new Ser Jacopo pipes, and I bought one about five years ago for less than I could get a similar estate pipe today. So it is a matter of patience, of knowing what you are looking at, and shopping over time buying only selectively. Yes, there are prices (low) that you won't believe. Some Forums members can stagger you with their generosity too.

 

[shanez]

So it is a matter of patience, of knowing what you are looking at, and shopping over time buying only selectively. Yes, there are prices (low) that you won't believe. Some Forums members can stagger you with their generosity too.

Probably can't be stated any better than this.

 

[rdavid]

OK. Thanks for great info gents.
It’s about what I thought then. So I guess it simply pays to keep checking websites and researching prices etc. That’s OK because I actually enjoy that aspect.
Also, I know I can buy $5000 pipes all day on SP but I’m more interested in supporting smaller, independent operations. Any suggestions on good independent carvers who routinely sell in the $300 to $500 range? I’ve come across a few but forgot their names, websites etc. I remember one who is in the process of moving back to Texas and had to set up his shop yet. Beautiful pipes and very popular here I believe. I’ve since lost his email unfortunately. Any suggestions on where to start researching greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I am dabbling in estate pipes also but that’s a whole different animal. Just need to educate myself further.

 

[rdavid]

Yes shanez. Great advice and I fully agree.

 

[fishnbanjo]

As far as your credit card is concerned, never, ever, just pay the minimum! I pretty much pay my toy credit card purchases off 100% unless I go off the deep end as I just did,

It does not happen often as I invariably have something to trade towards my purchase going through a dealer, private sales are different. If you’re buying pipes, tobacco, accessories etc. get in the habit of setting aside a given amount monthly even if you have a zero balance, that way when the $400 pipe that makes you swoon comes across the screen the fact that you have $285 tucked away makes $115 left to pay (plus taxes and shipping costs) much easier to swallow. Regards.

banjo

 

[ashdigger]

Definitely check out Ryan Alden at Aldenpipes.com

 

[fishnbanjo]

Think of your moniker rdavid, he’s RD Pipes, this is his website link which has a way of contacting him, he’s working hard to get to TX http://rdpipes.briar.club

banjo

 

[jpmcwjr]

Ryan Alden, Scottie Piersal, and Gustavo Cunha are three fine carvers whose pipes I have and are in that range, at least for now.

 

[rdavid]

Once again, I’m humbled by the amount of invaluable information and help I get here. Thank you very much gentlemen.
Banjo: Yes, that’s him, RD pipes. Oh yeah, my credit card companies hate me. The only time I make major purchases is if I’m scheduled for overtime at work. I usually pay off the balance or make large payments at the end of the month. Yes, a monthly pipe budget is probably a really good idea to get some reins on this habit/hobby. I keep reminding myself it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Thanks again.
Ashdigger: Will definitely be checking out Alden Pipes. Thanks.
jpm: As usual, you provided excellent information. I’ll be perusing those carvers mentioned very soon. Thank you Sir.

 

[economistandfisherman]

Hi rdavid, being an economist, I'm going to give you the long version explanation. In the grand scheme of things, there are really very few firms that broker pipe sales online...maybe 15 or 20 at the most (if that...frankly, I can only think of 5 or 6). This means that they are what is known as oligopolies. One reason why this industry type is so interesting to economists is because of the potential for price collusion across these firms, i.e., price fixing. Now, this doesn't have to be explicit collusion whereby the firms intentionally contact one another to fix prices (i.e., OPEC), but implicit collusion where they simply keep an eye on one another's prices and set theirs accordingly; the former is illegal (in the U.S.) the latter is not. Now, what sometimes happens is that one firm will "cheat" on the collusion (explicit or implicit) and temporarily offer a lower price on a product to capture more of the market. Now, many times the other firms follow suit and a price war evolves...but this drives down everyone's profits, so, many times, the other firms just hang back for a while to see what happens (i.e., how does their own business suffer from the competitor's price drop).
This could be what's happening here. Or it could be something completely different like this firm simply wants to get rid of some of their models.
I'm a Savinelli smoker...it's all I smoke nowadays...I love these pipes. That said, the price competition among firms for Savinelli's is usually quite competitive...so I can only think that it has to be one of these two scenarios that is occurring.

 

[jpmcwjr]

What about manufacturer's conditions such as MSRP? (Not that they are ironclad to say the least).
And I truly doubt that keeping an eye on competitor's pricing constitutes implicit collusion, even when being guided by prices they charge. Now, if there's a pattern where one or two raise prices, and the rest follow, that's another kettle.

 

[blendtobac]

Many factory pipes have a minimum advertised price policy (MAP). If a retailer posts a price below that number, they could be cut off from buying the product. But here's the twist - it's a minimum advertised price. So a rewards program, unless they advertise the dollar discount, doesn't run afoul of that policy. But if they're advertising a price below MAP, the distributor will normally give the retailer a warning, and if they persist they'll stop selling to them.
Russ

 

[economistandfisherman]

And I truly doubt that keeping an eye on competitor's pricing constitutes implicit collusion,

The whole idea of collusion is that they are setting a price above what is called "normal profits"..i.e., zero economic profits (not talking accounting profits here). Implicit collusion simply means that firms are watching what other firms are doing INSTEAD OF competing against one another. See the difference? Without collusion, firms compete and drive prices down to normal profits...it's simply the way capitalism works.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Thanks, Russ. Always good to have solid info from one in the know!

 

[tschiraldi]

Jesse Jones! $300's for a sandblast, $400's for a smooth. Jesse is, imo, the current master of the classic shapes! Find him at site sponsor Blue Room Briars.

 

[bnichols23]

it's a minimum advertised price. So a rewards program, unless they advertise the dollar discount, doesn't run afoul of that policy.

Agreed, & thanks, Russ, for laying it out for folks. Same deal throughout a lot of retail. Remember all those old ads that'd scream "Prices so low we can't advertise them!" And you always wondered "Why CAN'T you??" Same exact deal there. It's one of those peculiarities in retail that most people aren't in the know on.
Bill

 

[trouttimes]

This has become even more a sore point since brick and mortar stores cry they can't compete with internet sites.