Pipe Grading

[anotherbob]

Paying attention to a pipe maker's grading can be very helpful in seeing aspects of quality that might not be immediately obvious. A maker defines a challenge when he selects and shapes a block, and the grading reflects both the innate beauty of that particular piece of wood, and the success that the maker has had in shaping it.

for example you might not catch all the fills on a pipe right away but one would hope a high grade pipe would have zero noticeable fills anywhere. I think that would be one clear hard to refute aspect of which you talk about. Fills are funny because you can miss them on a pipe for quite a while and then one day you see it and until you shrug it off you'll keep seeing it.

 

[anotherbob]

Interesting responses. Even though some of the most highly regarded makers practice grading, most of the posters here seem to reject the idea. Just goes to show how diverse our hobby is.

That's because it's more benefit to the maker then the buyer. Since their the one that has to figure out the whims of the buying public. Will they pay how much for this pipe? Where a buyer doesn't really need help figuring out if it's worth the price to them.

 

[telescopes]

Grading is marketing. If it isn't, what does it then say about the maker? Is the maker willing to sell sub par merchandise and are buyers willing to purchase subpar merchandise? There has to be a minimum standard of excellence that defines the products made by any individual maker. Once that standard is defined, assuming that it includes an excellent fit, finish, and quality of workmanship that is definable, the only other aspects worthy of impacting costs would be those controlled by the natural beauty of the wood - as in grain, difficulty of mastering the shape, time to complete, and I suppose, experience in perfecting a certain shape or finish at a level deemed only possible with extra labor.

Savinelli, Peterson, and other mass producers are willing to sell sub par merchandise and it is priced accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and often, it allows purchases of pipes that would not otherwise be possible for some people.

Artisans.... that is an all together different category. For example: If I buy a Jack Howell, I want to know that it is the pipe he intended it to be and not one bit less. And, if he could have improved upon it, why didn't he before he sold it to me?

 

[anotherbob]

Grading is marketing. If it isn't, what does it then say about the maker? Is the maker willing to sell sub par merchandise and are buyers willing to purchase subpar merchandise? There has to be a minimum standard of excellence that defines the products made by any individual maker. Once that standard is defined, assuming that it includes an excellent fit, finish, and quality of workmanship that is definable, the only other aspects worthy of impacting costs would be those controlled by the natural beauty of the wood - as in grain, difficulty of mastering the shape, time to complete, and I suppose, experience in perfecting a certain shape or finish at a level deemed only possible with extra labor.

Savinelli, Peterson, and other mass producers are willing to sell sub par merchandise and it is priced accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and often, it allows purchases of pipes that would not otherwise be possible for some people.

Artisans.... that is an all together different category. For example: If I buy a Jack Howell, I want to know that it is the pipe he intended it to be and not one bit less. And, if he could have improved upon it, why didn't he before he sold it to me?

I sort of disagree. I'll put it this way. If I spend 100 dollars on a pipe I don't care if there are a few subtle fills and one or two obvious ones. If I spend five hundred I will feel genuinely upset about the same number of fills and probably return the pipe for one that doesn't have those "flaws". It reminds me of people scoffing at seconds, until you ask them how they'd feel buying that at full price.

 

[cigrmaster]

I never cared too much about grading systems. The only ones I really cared about were my hand made Winslows and some Castello's, I sold off all of those pipes years ago. All of my artisan pipes don't have any grading which is fine with me as I don't need a grading to know if I like a pipe or I don't. I think the only grading I have is a Caliper grade on a Brian Ruthenberg pipe which designated it was special. I still have the pipe.

 

[telescopes]

I sort of disagree. I'll put it this way. If I spend 100 dollars on a pipe I don't care if there are a few subtle fills and one or two obvious ones. If I spend five hundred I will feel genuinely upset about the same number of fills and probably return the pipe for one that doesn't have those "flaws". It reminds me of people scoffing at seconds, until you ask them how they'd feel buying that at full price.

If we are speaking about Petersons, Savinellis, yes. But for those brands that market themselves as premium, no. Should a Sea Rock Castillo have any flaws that are noticeable or observable?

 

[anotherbob]

If we are speaking about Petersons, Savinellis, yes. But for those brands that market themselves as premium, no. Should a Sea Rock Castillo have any flaws that are noticeable or observable?

I don't really like Castillo all that much. Nothing against them but they don't tickle my fancy so I can't comment on how premium they are.

 

[telescopes]

I never cared too much about grading systems. The only ones I really cared about were my hand made Winslows and some Castello's, I sold off all of those pipes years ago. All of my artisan pipes don't have any grading which is fine with me as I don't need a grading to know if I like a pipe or I don't. I think the only grading I have is a Caliper grade on a Brian Ruthenberg pipe which designated it was special. I still have the pipe.

You enjoy J. Howells. If Jack were to say to you, "Hey, I could make this pipe better or I could sell it to you as is" I can't imagine you thinking that this was a conversation he would have with you. The expectation is that he sells only his best and offers only his best. If I compare my J. Howell to any of yours, the expectation is that in terms of quality, there should be no difference.

A Howell is a Howell, even Gilligan would agree. Right?

 

[cigrmaster]

You enjoy J. Howells. If Jack were to say to you, "Hey, I could make this pipe better or I could sell it to you as is" I can't imagine you thinking that this was a conversation he would have with you. The expectation is that he sells only his best and offers only his best. If I compare my J. Howell to any of yours, the expectation is that in terms of quality, there should be no difference.

A Howell is a Howell, even Gilligan would agree. Right?

LOL, a Gilligan reference in the pipe world, who would have thunk it? I agree about a Howell. All of mine smoke like all the others and his consistency is what I enjoy so much about his work. After owning a dozen of his pipes, I do have a good idea of how they are supposed to smoke like. I am not even done buying more as I have more in the works. I am selling off any pipe in my collection that doesn't smoke as good as a Howell. I am to old to settle for less.

 

[sablebrush52]

This idea of a grading being an absolute indicator of quality used by the best makers has me wondering, so I called a buddy, a highly respected artist by the name of Mike Angelo, to get his perspective. The following transcript has been edited for clarity:

ME: Hi Mike! I know you're busy with commissions but could you put down the quill for a moment? I'd appreciate your take on grading work.

MIKE: Easy, everyone else's work is shit, especially Leonard. He can't finish anything.

ME: Okaaay, but do you grade your work? Like when you painted the Last Judgement, did you give it a grade? Would you rate it against the Sistine Ceiling or the Pietå for example.

MIKE: Have you been at the hemp again? It screws with your brains. Grading? Why would I ever consider doing that? Leonard would, that prancing putz, but who am I trying to impress?
Could you imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Julius somehow decided that my work was significantly variable in quality. He's enough of a pain in the ass with his "When will you make an end?" BS. He'd have been happy with a quick spray job and some stars.

ME: So you don't think grading your output is a good idea?

MIKE: Hell no! That's like picking favorites among my children.

ME: You have kids? How the hell did that happen?

MIKE: Don't be a wise ass. All my works are my children and I have been equally passionate about all of them. No way I'm going to do that.

ME: So, just to reiterate, you don't put grades on your work nor you would consider doing that?

MIKE: Bingo! My work's good. That's enough. You like it or you don't. Mind you, I can see where it could be used as a scam to rope in the rubes, but that doesn't interest me. Give it to Leonard. He'll jump on it like an altar boy.

ME: Ok, great. And thanks for your time, Mike. Don't take any wooden ducats.

 

[bullet08]

It's not exactly a diamond we are smoking tobacco out of. Can't really look inside of the briar. But some companies do grade them based on the beauty of the grain and so on.

 

[mso489]

Pipes should be graded by the owners who smoke them after five years of regular use. Then you know what kind of a pipe you have. All the rest is braggadocio and salesmanship. The Missouri state motto is, "Show me." That's it.

 

[danish]

Briar is a natural product, therefore the final look of eg color, grain and 'flaws' of a pipe may vary, like diamonds and amber, where a grading, although subjective, helps to determine the price, or grade if you like. This will not be exact science for carvers or buyers, or measurable, but a personal validation by the carver, which can be treated as a guide or not, as you wish. That is how I understand it and I have no problems with it. Apart from not having the means to buy Snails or grade A's.

 

[pauls456]

Every good pipemaker, including the very best, will make mostly good pipes and some great pipes. Accordingly, every pipemaker grades his/her pipes. How, you might ask? By setting a price. When a pipemaker goes the extra step of making his grading explicit with a grade stamp, he is actually doing the consumer a service.

 

[mso489]

Pipe carvers are like parents of several or more children. They say they love them all the same, but in fact they feel closer and more fulfilled by some than by others. As anyone who has observed a string of siblings and their parents, the parents' judgements on these things are not always objective. They can love the least functional kids the most, and miss the qualities of the talented ones for life. It's a curse of being a parent. You don't always see your children clearly. And maybe that's just as well. Just don't trust the parent's assessments of their brood, nor the pipe carver's assessment of his.

 

[pauls456]

I guess all pipes are equally worthy of our love and attention. Kind of reminds me of the leftist doctrine on our college campuses.

 

[bayareabriar]

This idea of a grading being an absolute indicator of quality used by the best makers has me wondering, so I called a buddy, a highly respected artist by the name of Mike Angelo, to get his perspective. The following transcript has been edited for clarity:

ME: Hi Mike! I know you're busy with commissions but could you put down the quill for a moment? I'd appreciate your take on grading work.

MIKE: Easy, everyone else's work is shit, especially Leonard. He can't finish anything.

ME: Okaaay, but do you grade your work? Like when you painted the Last Judgement, did you give it a grade? Would you rate it against the Sistine Ceiling or the Pietå for example.

MIKE: Have you been at the hemp again? It screws with your brains. Grading? Why would I ever consider doing that? Leonard would, that prancing putz, but who am I trying to impress?
Could you imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Julius somehow decided that my work was significantly variable in quality. He's enough of a pain in the ass with his "When will you make an end?" BS. He'd have been happy with a quick spray job and some stars.

ME: So you don't think grading your output is a good idea?

MIKE: Hell no! That's like picking favorites among my children.

ME: You have kids? How the hell did that happen?

MIKE: Don't be a wise ass. All my works are my children and I have been equally passionate about all of them. No way I'm going to do that.

ME: So, just to reiterate, you don't put grades on your work nor you would consider doing that?

MIKE: Bingo! My work's good. That's enough. You like it or you don't. Mind you, I can see where it could be used as a scam to rope in the rubes, but that doesn't interest me. Give it to Leonard. He'll jump on it like an altar boy.

ME: Ok, great. And thanks for your time, Mike. Don't take any wooden ducats.

Yeah, but what does a 24 year old know?

 

[craiginthecorn]

Grading is almost always about asthetics. It has no relevance to the quality of the pipe or how well it smokes. A Peterson Supreme has the same chance of smoking well as a Standard. However, there is virtually no chance that you'll find a random Standard with exceptionally lovely grain. Same for Castello Collection Fiamatta and Trademark K pipes. That is not to suggest that lower grade pipes cannot be beautiful in their own right.

On the other hand, a high grade is not necessarily a guarantee of outstanding relative beauty. I have a Dunhill Amber Flame that is absolutely nothing special. Charatan was famous for their inconsistency. Collectors know whose grading they can rely upon.

It is worth noting that some of the finest and in-demand carvers do not grade their pipes. Jess Chonowitsch comes to mind.

There's nothing inherently wrong with grading. In fact, as my collecting has increasingly focused on quality over quantity and value, grades help me focus my searches.

 

[mingc]

A pipe maker may grade his or her pipes either explicitly or implicitly. Explicitly by stamping the grade on the pipe. Or implictly by charging different prices for each and/or having different lines/finishes at different prices. Rare is the maker who does neither.

 

[Toast]

I'd agree with the above - the price set is essentially a grade. Since he's been cited a few times, this is what Jack Howell says about pricing:

'If you want a 55 Interpretation with perfect grain or an Eskimo with a blast like Neill Roan's, I dunno, it may be a while. Unless you're willing to pay $2,000, in which case you have my attention.'

Any maker is going to have a minimum standard below which it's counterproductive to their brand to place on the market. But sometimes - for example - they'll take more risks & it seems fair to seek more reward for that. &, for sure, sometimes it'll just be selling the same fabric at a higher cost.

That said, a cheaper pipe will often speak to me more than a pricier pipe by the same maker. No accounting for taste (especially mine judging by the recent least favourite pipe shapes thread)!