Pipe Dagger

[The Mitre]

Hi everyone,
I buy and sell pipes from my base in the UK and this little gem has recently found it's way to me. I'm wondering if anyone else has come across these secret daggers hidden in the stem? This chap is a Hardcastle "Crown" in he apple shape. It must be pre 1936 because Hardcastle were taken over by Dunhill in 1937/1937 and the Crown pipe was not made after that. I'm guessing that the addition of the dagger was an after market job. As I understand it the pipe would be difficult to smoke, if at all, after the dagger had been fitted. The question is does anyone think all this is likely. Maybe someone in the SOE, Special Operations Executive, decided they needed this little beauty in case they got caught in France?
Thoughts anyone?

 

[anotherbob]

either that or it's an attempt at making a stinger. Certainly seems more tool like then weapon like.

 

[aspiring_sage]

Prison tool?

 

[workman]

If the date fits, it wouldn't be far fetched at all to think it is some kind of war time, cloak and dagger contraption. They tried all sorts of things.
Does it work as a pipe, I mean, can it be smoked?

 

[mso489]

I can't see the details of the blade, but unless it has an airway, it would appear to be a concealed weapon disguised in a pipe. If it was done for special operations (that is by pros), it should be well anchored in the handle with a professionally crafted blade. Otherwise, it may be a homemade version done by a thug or someone in fear. Any reason someone would disguise a tool as a pipe? A prison tool is a possibility.

 

[greeneyes]

These and other tools of escape for prisoners of war were manufactured at the behest of the Ministry of Supply for MI9 at a date somewhat later than what you suggested, I believe.

 

[anotherbob]

These and other tools of escape for prisoners of war were manufactured at the behest of the Ministry of Supply for MI9 at a date somewhat later than what you suggested, I believe.

seems like weapon use is down the list of this things functions.

 

[jpberg]

I have a Kaywoodie with a three hole assassins attatchment.

Sometimes, a stinger is just a stinger.

 

[runscott]

I have a Kaywoodie with a three hole assassins attatchment.

Sometimes, a stinger is just a stinger.

I have tried to remove a 'stuck' old stinger, carefully, with t-shirt cloth and pliers, and broken it right off.

The 'victim' of this pipe dagger might not notice if he was stabbed.

 

[greeneyes]

seems like weapon use is down the list of this things functions.

Yes there were weapons, saws, maps and compasses among other things. Several of them are on display in various museums in the UK and they're featured in a somewhat rare book written by their inventor in MI9.

 

[jpberg]

I once killed a man with a Dunhill innersamurisword.

 

[runscott]

I once killed a man with a Dunhill innersamurisword.

There was no need to get dramatic - the job could have been accomplished with the stummel of a group 6, in the proper hands.

 

[runscott]

I once buried an enemy and gave him only a Group 2 stem to get air from the surface. He screamed in vain for a Dr. Grabow.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I can't do more than speculate, which has already been done.

But my post has more to do with football, which we Americans usually call soccer. Do you have a team?

 

[anotherbob]

Yes there were weapons, saws, maps and compasses among other things. Several of them are on display in various museums in the UK and they're featured in a somewhat rare book written by their inventor in MI9.

oh I've seen some of them. Though it's hard to tell with some of them if they're a prototype or something that actually ever made it out into the field.

 

[Hillcrest]

There is a japanese one at the Amsterdam Pipe Museum that was used in Theatre.

---

Japanese stage pipe​

January 2020​

Coming from Japan this tobacco pipe or kiseru is special for multiple reasons. First the size, because the pipe differs from the refined conventional ones by being larger with more weight and a rather coarse decoration. You wonder if this pipe was made by a pipe maker. The shape of the pipe bowl with a heavy bowl wall is not characteristic for Japanese pipe makers at all. A unique feature of this object is that the stem slides open, revealing a dagger with a razor-sharp blade. The size in combination with this second function indicates that this pipe played a special role in the theater. Thanks to the large size, it is clearly visible from a distance, while the weapon function is a surprise that makes a big impression on stage. Notwithstanding its originality because of the size and the added function, if we look at the workmanship of this object, it is somewhat disappointing. Where the Japanese kiseru is characterized by refinement and subtlety, made with great craftsmanship, this pipe is, as noted, coarse and shapeless in design, while the decoration on the pipe is rather unclear. These characterize the fact that it is not a pipe maker, but a gunsmith who was unaware of the refinement of the kiseru. The fact that he was an expert in forging stabbing weapons explains the fabulous metal of the knife, for which the gunsmith may be applauded.
Amsterdam Pipe Museum APM 23.467

Amsterdam Pipe Museum -

pipemuseum.nl

 

[verporchting]

That’s a pipe dedicated to Samuel Gawith flake tobacco. It doesn’t matter if there’s a draft hole or not, there’s virtually nothing you can do to get it properly lit and burning. The pointy bit is to stab yourself in the eye to put you out of your misery. If it smells like 1792 flake you’ll have all the confirmation you need.

 

[OzPiper]

There is a japanese one at the Amsterdam Pipe Museum that was used in Theatre.

---

Japanese stage pipe​

January 2020​

Coming from Japan this tobacco pipe or kiseru is special for multiple reasons. First the size, because the pipe differs from the refined conventional ones by being larger with more weight and a rather coarse decoration. You wonder if this pipe was made by a pipe maker. The shape of the pipe bowl with a heavy bowl wall is not characteristic for Japanese pipe makers at all. A unique feature of this object is that the stem slides open, revealing a dagger with a razor-sharp blade. The size in combination with this second function indicates that this pipe played a special role in the theater. Thanks to the large size, it is clearly visible from a distance, while the weapon function is a surprise that makes a big impression on stage. Notwithstanding its originality because of the size and the added function, if we look at the workmanship of this object, it is somewhat disappointing. Where the Japanese kiseru is characterized by refinement and subtlety, made with great craftsmanship, this pipe is, as noted, coarse and shapeless in design, while the decoration on the pipe is rather unclear. These characterize the fact that it is not a pipe maker, but a gunsmith who was unaware of the refinement of the kiseru. The fact that he was an expert in forging stabbing weapons explains the fabulous metal of the knife, for which the gunsmith may be applauded.
Amsterdam Pipe Museum APM 23.467

Amsterdam Pipe Museum -

pipemuseum.nl

A dead giveaway as a weapon, as its design is so different to the usual slender stemmed ones

Any samurai carrying that might as well have "assassin" tattooed on his forehead. ?

 

[The Mitre]

Wow, thanks for all this, certainly food for thought.

Going forward I think I've concluded that this is a pipe dagger. The only issue would be if Hardcastle, before 1936, ever fitted stingers like this to their pipes?

If the didn't them my reasoning for thinking it's authentic is as follows:

It seems obvious tome that if you're making up a secret weapon then you would use a pipe that has already been smoked and has tar residue in the bowl. A brand new one, that didn't suck, would stand out.

It appears that once the blade is fitted the pipe doesn't work, no through passage. It could still be filled with tobacco to help disguise it.

I think most of us would be surprised how much damage a small blade like this could do. It measures about 2" long, say 50mm. Enough to penetrate an eye, as has been suggested, and do damage to the brain. This would surely incapacitate an opponent? It could also be used to stab for the main artery's in the neck. It has a very sharp point, it's not and edged weapon.

I gave the blade a firm but controlled tug and it came out of he stem! It had some sort of cotton wrapped around the shaft which, I guess, had helped it be glued/fixed in place. This was all friable and fell away so I could see the design of the blade and shaft. It appears to have been shaped or cast in one piece with a square shaft. This leads me to believe it's purpose made and not something you'd find made by a POW or even a thug! (I could re wrap the shaft and re fit it but, for now, it's best left loose).

So there we have it. I now think it's genuine, what's the consensus?

(I'll post some images of the blade and shaft when it gets light here!).

PS Further research indicates that a pipe dagger sold not so long ago for £1800, around $2300 and I see another advertised at £875, say $1100. So now I have a quandary as a trader, is it a keeper or a seller? If anyone wants to tempt me send a sensible offer via email!

 

[olkofri]

Totally redefines the term "stinger".