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MisterBadger

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2024
606
4,454
Ludlow, UK
Back bashing Brits. You guys own the American concept of Christmas, but what great Christmas music have you created? It's like after Purcell you guys dropped off the map. Britten? PLease. Handel's a kraut, as is J S Bach and Mozart. And on the pops side, if it wasn't for Jewish American tin pan alley songwriters we'd have zip.
Pah! I could cite you a whole sheaf of Christmas carols, much song both sides the pond, the lyrics and music for which were composed by Brits in the centuries following the great Purcell. 'Hark! The Herald Angels Sing', 'Once In Royal David's City', 'In The Bleak Midwinter', 'Good Christian Men, Rejoice', and 'God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen', spring immediately to mind. I'll grant you lads 'Away In A Manger' but I do find that mawkish. 'Joy To The World' is English, even if Lowell Mason did mess with the arrangement a bit.
 
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MisterBadger

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2024
606
4,454
Ludlow, UK
No need to apologize , it's interesting to hear and learn . Not sure I completely understand , though .......

I have nothing against people w/money (they are some of my best customers) . But as a rule , in the US , they tend to build more expensive homes , buy expensive toys , vehicles , etc .

Why would they buy (what I assume) are modest homes out in the country ? That really isn't common here .

........is it just to own a remote vacation/party house ? :rolleyes:
@dd57chevy - Mainly, yes. Like the house-swap in (ugh!) 'Love Actually'. Preferably somewhere Olde-Worlde and picturesque. And where you get more house for your London money. Towns in the Welsh Marches -= and West Cornwall - are favourite.
 
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rakovsky

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 28, 2024
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Pah! I could cite you a whole sheaf of Christmas carols, much song both sides the pond, the lyrics and music for which were composed by Brits in the centuries following the great Purcell. 'Hark! The Herald Angels Sing', 'Once In Royal David's City', 'In The Bleak Midwinter', 'Good Christian Men, Rejoice', and 'God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen', spring immediately to mind. I'll grant you lads 'Away In A Manger' but I do find that mawkish. 'Joy To The World' is English, even if Lowell Mason did mess with the arrangement a bit.
Yes the English did make a bunch of nice-sounding Christmas carols.
I don't know how I feel about talking collectively about people in these terms, "the English", "Americans." But to the extent that we do, Americans have a little tricky relationship nationally to England's Church heritage. England required everyone to belong to the Church of England and was rather successful in this, so that there are only 2% of or 2 million English people remaining today as Catholics.
British colonial America in the future US on the other hand had a lot of immigration from England by Catholics, Quakers, Calvinists, Congregationalists. There were still a lot of Anglicans, but a problem happened during the American Revolution because afterwards it was hard to get bishops from England. My understanding is that this ended up in the creation of the Methodist Church in the US.
Still, Anglican (Episcopalian) and Methodist are common in the US, but most American Christians belong to other Churches than them.
 
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brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
10,038
16,081
I'm too averse to pain and suffering to read this 32 PAGE THREAD :rolleyes:, but am compelled to say that you should all be ashamed of yourselves for making fun of the Brits while they are enduring such a dire national crisis...must be an Irish plot:

Guinness Rationing!!!

Pubs across the UK are beginning to introduce “Guinness ration cards” amid a national shortage of the iconic Irish stout ahead of Christmas.

Establishments have been panic buying the beverage in the hope they don’t run dry over the festive period, as some say they have already run out of stock completely.

Pubs such as the Old Ivy House, in Clerkenwell, London, introduced rationing rules last week to preserve their stock - but still found themselves short of supply.


 
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mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,798
8,568
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Here's another oddity about our American friends, they have yet to master compound words and their usage.

Typically we get such seemingly difficult compounds as key board, tooth brush, after noon, over night, inter net and an all American favourite cheese burger (or should that be cheese boiger?) puffy

Jay.
 

MisterBadger

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2024
606
4,454
Ludlow, UK
Yes the English did make a bunch of nice-sounding Christmas carols.
I don't know how I feel about talking collectively about people in these terms, "the English", "Americans." But to the extent that we do, Americans have a little tricky relationship nationally to England's Church heritage. England required everyone to belong to the Church of England and was rather successful in this, so that there are only 2% of or 2 million English people remaining today as Catholics.
British colonial America in the future US on the other hand had a lot of immigration from England by Catholics, Quakers, Calvinists, Congregationalists. There were still a lot of Anglicans, but a problem happened during the American Revolution because afterwards it was hard to get bishops from England. My understanding is that this ended up in the creation of the Methodist Church in the US.
Still, Anglican (Episcopalian) and Methodist are common in the US, but most American Christians belong to other Churches than them.
Well, it would be really stupid to talk about a bunch of millions of people as if they were all the same, and mean it. Wars have started that way.

The Church of England - which squares the circle of describing itself as both Catholic and Protestant - has been losing its grip on the nation even since compulsory tithes and fines for non-attendance were abolished in the mid 19thC (I'm oversimplifying a bit, here - non-attendance was still technically illegal until 1969 but the last prosecution was in 1840). The nineteenth century saw the Church of England shape its implicit congregational beliefs (modus orendi, modus credendi) locally in response to the most popular competing denominations, so in the Westcountry, where Methodism was its chief rival, parish churches minimised the more Catholic practices, whereas in Lancashire, where I'm from, Anglo-Catholic forms of worship are more popular because historically Lancashire is a very Catholic county. One can call it a broad Church - I call it meretricious.

What this means is, you can walk into any Anglican church of a Sunday morning in an area you're unfamiliar with, and have no idea what you're going to get: the service can be anything from para-Pentecostal, with folk babbling and rolling in the aisles, to Anglo-Catholic, where it's hard to realise for a time that they're not following the Roman Missal. It's a huge irony, but practically speaking, it's the parish congregations who effectively determine the form of worship in their local Anglican church, so we could say that Congregationalism has triumphed. The authority of their bishops over their dioceses seems almost as titular and symbolic, as that of our monarchy.

What am I doing? I should be defending anything English, especially the dear old C of E, tooth and nail, against any hint of criticism from you wascally webels, like a good pre-Revolutionary loyalist Tory... :LOL:
 
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Infantry23

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 8, 2020
875
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Smithsburg, Maryland
Pah! I could cite you a whole sheaf of Christmas carols, much song both sides the pond, the lyrics and music for which were composed by Brits in the centuries following the great Purcell. 'Hark! The Herald Angels Sing', 'Once In Royal David's City', 'In The Bleak Midwinter', 'Good Christian Men, Rejoice', and 'God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen', spring immediately to mind. I'll grant you lads 'Away In A Manger' but I do find that mawkish. 'Joy To The World' is English, even if Lowell Mason did mess with the arrangement a bit.
Ok, well done. But all this is negated by "Last Christmas." Don't get me wrong, I like George Michael. But you Brits get to own that one.

Here's another oddity about our American friends, they have yet to master compound words and their usage.

Typically we get such seemingly difficult compounds as key board, tooth brush, after noon, over night, inter net and an all American favourite cheese burger (or should that be cheese boiger?) puffy

Jay.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Do Brits make two words out of these aforementioned words? If so, you're just being silly.
 

MisterBadger

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2024
606
4,454
Ludlow, UK
Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time. Sir Paul should've kept that one in the bag too. That's the aural equivalent of the freehand penis pipe a few threads over.
And - to save you the trouble of calling it to mind and mentioning it - 'Christmas Time' by Cliff Richard. But then, there's Mariah Carey... not to mention Katherine Kennicott Davis, who wrote 'The Little Drummer Boy'... "Aw, look - the poor lady's fagged out after giving birth, and her baby's finally gone to sleep. I know Just the thing to perk them both up - a nice, long, drum solo."
 

rakovsky

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 28, 2024
131
162
Here's another oddity about our American friends, they have yet to master compound words and their usage.

Typically we get such seemingly difficult compounds as key board, tooth brush, after noon, over night, inter net and an all American favourite cheese burger (or should that be cheese boiger?) puffy

Jay.
What do you mean that we have yet to master them? In the afternoon I typed on my keyboard to use the internet before using a toothbrush to clean my teeth.
 
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rakovsky

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 28, 2024
131
162
The Church of England - which squares the circle of describing itself as both Catholic and Protestant - has been losing its grip on the nation even since compulsory tithes and fines for non-attendance were abolished in the mid 19thC (I'm oversimplifying a bit, here - non-attendance was still technically illegal until 1969 but the last prosecution was in 1840). The nineteenth century saw the Church of England shape its implicit congregational beliefs (modus orendi, modus credendi) locally in response to the most popular competing denominations, so in the Westcountry, where Methodism was its chief rival, parish churches minimised the more Catholic practices, whereas in Lancashire, where I'm from, Anglo-Catholic forms of worship are more popular because historically Lancashire is a very Catholic county. One can call it a broad Church - I call it meretricious.

What this means is, you can walk into any Anglican church of a Sunday morning in an area you're unfamiliar with, and have no idea what you're going to get: the service can be anything from para-Pentecostal, with folk babbling and rolling in the aisles, to Anglo-Catholic, where it's hard to realise for a time that they're not following the Roman Missal. It's a huge irony, but practically speaking, it's the parish congregations who effectively determine the form of worship in their local Anglican church, so we could say that Congregationalism has triumphed. The authority of their bishops over their dioceses seems almost as titular and symbolic, as that of our monarchy.

What am I doing? I should be defending anything English, especially the dear old C of E, tooth and nail, against any hint of criticism from you wascally webels, like a good pre-Revolutionary loyalist Tory... :LOL:
I think C.O.E. (We call its worldwide version "Anglican" in the US since it's also here in the form of the Episcopalian Church) counts as Protestant, not "Catholic" because it changed its theology strongly in a Protestant direction and also split from the "Catholic Church."

C.O.E., Methodists, and Lutheran are two of the closest Protestant Churches to the Catholic Church, although in different ways. With the C.O.E., a lot of ritual and importance of Holy Tradition is retained from Catholicism. But with Lutheranism, you get the continuation of the role of the supernatural more than in the C.O.E., particularly with the Lutheran belief in Christ's bodily objective direct presence in the Eucharist. I also get the impression that Lutheran communities got along better with the Catholics. Germany's princes made an arrangement where Germany's princedoms divided along religious lines instead of making Germany officially Protestant or Catholic.

Clearly different countries have good and bad practices, so you don't have to defend the bad ones. But you can either make those practices make sense or else give an insider perspective.

To give a US "insider" POV: Out of the 13 founding US colonies/states, 9 of them were founded by communities that faced religious repression by England: New England (6 "Reformed Prot." states), PA and southern NJ (Quakers), and Maryland (Catholics). So to a significant extent, emigration from England to find Religious Freedom is a founding part of the US narrative and national consciousness.

But as a teenager, I became alittle more skeptical about part of this narrative, namely, the extent to which New England's Protestant Reformed wanted religious freedom. They created a society in the Massachusetts colony that seemed more strictly theocratic than that of contemporary England because the 17th century MA colony hanged some Quakers, probably for openly professing Quakerism, a pacifist Protestant denomination. Then they had the Salem Witch trials. Nathanael Hawthorne wrote about this Puritanic period in New England history. So, the C.O.E. was repressive, but the New England Puritans were repressive too.
 
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