Over-Aged Pipe Tobacco

[Mury]

When does pipe tobacco lose its prime and become mummy dust?

Is there such a thing?

Are there blends that age better and others that don’t?

Is there a saturation curve and what does that curve timeline look like?

 

[greeneyes]

I don't think I've smoked anything older than 75 years old that was worth a damn in terms of cigarettes and cutter top tobacco, but the answer to this question is going to vary wildly depending on type, treatment and packaging.

 

[spearheadbill]

This is a very complex issue with so many variables that I don't believe there is any type of short concise answer other than to say, YES. There is a point of diminishing returns.

 

[OzPiper]

I know zilch about cellaring and ageing tobacco since I’ve only come back to pipes in 2018

But I have been cellaring wine since the mid-70s
And the answer is - It depends on:

- The type of tobacco/blend
- The packaging/container and how good the seal is
- The cellaring conditions ie the temperature and humidity. And how constant the conditions are.
- Have the tins been shifted around frequently or have they lain undisturbed for decades

 

[lraisch]

I have tried the same blend fresh, and with 3, 5, 7, 11, and 20 years of age.

For that blend at least, the 7-year mark seemed to be the peak. The 20-year-old version was past its prime with the latakia component in particular fading.

Depending on a host of variables I believe there is a point at which more aging is not a good thing.

 

[sablebrush52]

You’re asking a very good question and you’ve received some equally good responses.

There are a lot of variables, and as those variables increase over time the results become more variable as well.

Even with everything seemingly the same, results can differ. I’ll offer an example.

About 13 years ago I split up a box of Gawith FVF into 3 mason jars for aging. All three jars were new, from the same palette. The jars were packed and sealed in about a minute. They were stored side by side on the same shelf for 8 years.

They all came out differently. The tobacco in one jar developed a wonderful caramel like sweetness. One jar had a less pronounced sweetness. The tobacco in the third jar was flat. All of the jars were equally well sealed, they were from the same batch, they shared the same environment. All different.

Different blends change differently as time goes by. Different components change differently as time goes by.

Different versions of a blend, made by different manufacturers, change differently.

It’s all a bit of a crapshoot.

The oldest blend I’ve smoked was about 100 years old and it was absolutely vile. Tasted like what I would imagine zombie vomit would taste like.

The majority of the blends I’ve tried above 50 years of age were compromised, very much reduced, more like wraiths. That said, the occasional tin will defy the odds and be truly fine.

But, the odds get slimmer as the years go by.

 

[OzPiper]

You’re asking a very good question and you’ve received some equally good responses.

There are a lot of variables, and as those variables increase over time the results become more variable as well.

Even with everything seemingly the same, results can differ. I’ll offer an example.

About 13 years ago I split up a box of Gawith FVF into 3 mason jars for aging. All three jars were new, from the same palette. The jars were packed and sealed in about a minute. They were stored side by side on the same shelf for 8 years.

They all came out differently. The tobacco in one jar developed a wonderful caramel like sweetness. One jar had a less pronounced sweetness. The tobacco in the third jar was flat. All of the jars were equally well sealed, they were from the same batch, they shared the same environment. All different.

Different blends change differently as time goes by. Different components change differently as time goes by.

Different versions of a blend, made by different manufacturers, change differently.

It’s all a bit of a crapshoot.

The oldest blend I’ve smoked was about 100 years old and it was absolutely vile. Tasted like what I would imagine zombie vomit would taste like.

The majority of the blends I’ve tried above 50 years of age were compromised, very much reduced, more like wraiths. That said, the occasional tin will defy the odds and be truly fine.

But, the odds get slimmer as the years go by.

Absolutely !

I have cases of wine - bottles from the same batch stored undisturbed in the original box where there has been noticeable and significant bottle variation.

The oldest bottles I’ve had are a 1837 Madeira (3 bottles) and a 1855 vintage port in astonishingly great shape.
And I’ve had 3 year old Beaujolais that were only fit for pouring down the drain

 

[Mury]

I have tried the same blend fresh, and with 3, 5, 7, 11, and 20 years of age.

For that blend at least, the 7-year mark seemed to be the peak. The 20-year-old version was past its prime with the latakia component in particular fading.

Depending on a host of variables I believe there is a point at which more aging is not a good thing.

interesting! This begs the question if certain leaves are superior in terms of longevity. For example, will virginias always just keep better? And do they tend to fade?

 

[OzPiper]

interesting! This begs the question if certain leaves are superior in terms of longevity. For example, will virginias always just keep better? And do they tend to fade?

Nothing lives forever !
They will improve up to a point, stay there for a while, then descend the slippery slope known as senescence

The fun of ageing wine or tobacco is seeing when they near or reach their apogee.
And enjoying them close to or at their peak rather wait until they are moribund

 

[Mury]

You’re asking a very good question and you’ve received some equally good responses.

There are a lot of variables, and as those variables increase over time the results become more variable as well.

Even with everything seemingly the same, results can differ. I’ll offer an example.

About 13 years ago I split up a box of Gawith FVF into 3 mason jars for aging. All three jars were new, from the same palette. The jars were packed and sealed in about a minute. They were stored side by side on the same shelf for 8 years.

They all came out differently. The tobacco in one jar developed a wonderful caramel like sweetness. One jar had a less pronounced sweetness. The tobacco in the third jar was flat. All of the jars were equally well sealed, they were from the same batch, they shared the same environment. All different.

Different blends change differently as time goes by. Different components change differently as time goes by.

Different versions of a blend, made by different manufacturers, change differently.

It’s all a bit of a crapshoot.

The oldest blend I’ve smoked was about 100 years old and it was absolutely vile. Tasted like what I would imagine zombie vomit would taste like.

The majority of the blends I’ve tried above 50 years of age were compromised, very much reduced, more like wraiths. That said, the occasional tin will defy the odds and be truly fine.

But, the odds get slimmer as the years go by.

How in Gods earth were 3 different jars of the same batch different? Were the tobacco’s oriented the same way within the jar?

Were the weights of each jar (and contents inside) the same?

Did 1 jar recieve more light?

Did you look at one of the jars more?

 

[Mury]

Absolutely !

I have cases of wine - bottles from the same batch stored undisturbed in the original box where there has been noticeable and significant bottle variation.

The oldest bottles I’ve had are a 1837 Madeira (3 bottles) and a 1855 vintage port in astonishingly great shape.
And I’ve had 3 year old Beaujolais that were only fit for pouring down the drain

sheesh those are old! have you tasted from each to see if they have differences?

 

[OzPiper]

sheesh those are old! have you tasted from each to see if they have differences?

The 3 bottles of 1837 Madeira were drunk over several years. All 3 bottles were in great shape. But I really can’t attest if one was superior to the others

1837 Oscar’s Bual (Madeira)


1855 Taylor’s Scion (vintage port)


1874 Sisquelle - a French sweet dessert wine


These are exceptional bottles.
I have had lots of bottles that were moribund at 3-5 years

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I don't have a lot of experience smoking really old tobacco. I've smoked several tins that were 30 years plus and they were fabulous. I've been lucky, never opened a tin over 20 years old that was a dog.

With that said, Virginias seem to age nicely. I mostly smoke Virginia Flakes that are 5 to 8 years old. I don't recall opening a tin of Virginia Flake that hadn't improved appreciably with age. I'm sure I will eventually but given all I've smoked, that will make it a rare occurrence.

If stored correctly, I would think most tobaccos would be fine up to 20 to 25 years. I'm sure there would be some spoilage but not significant. Longer than that, who cares?

 

[Searock Fan]

When you see mold on tobacco, it's overaged and time to chuck it out.

 

[Mury]

When you see mold on tobacco, it's overaged and time to chuck it out.

mold can happen on new or old tobacco though

 

[Mury]

Nothing lives forever !
They will improve up to a point, stay there for a while, then descend the slippery slope known as senescence

The fun of ageing wine or tobacco is seeing when they near or reach their apogee.
And enjoying them close to or at their peak rather wait until they are moribund

I think the million dollar question is, what is that peak? What does that peak look like for that particular tin or bottle? There’s no way to know unless it’s been there before. but even then ever bottle and tin is different although same batch

 

[Mury]

I don't have a lot of experience smoking really old tobacco. I've smoked several tins that were 30 years plus and they were fabulous. I've been lucky, never opened a tin over 20 years old that was a dog.

With that said, Virginias seem to age nicely. I mostly smoke Virginia Flakes that are 5 to 8 years old. I don't recall opening a tin of Virginia Flake that hadn't improved appreciably with age. I'm sure I will eventually but given all I've smoked, that will make it a rare occurrence.

If stored correctly, I would think most tobaccos would be fine up to 20 to 25 years. I'm sure there would be some spoilage but not significant. Longer than that, who cares?

very interesting

 

[wyfbane]

Not much new to add, but I did smoke a 50 year old tobacco at one of the Seattle Pipe Club annual hootenanies. I guy had purchased the tin and brought it that day for all of us to try. This was in 2015 or so. It was sublime. I wish I could remember what it was, but it had lakeland essence in it and it was my do or die moment with that tobacco type. So good.

I also got some Mac Baren Mixture Scottish from 1977 on eBay before they got all draconian about buying tobacco on their site. It was about the same time, 2015 or 16. I cracked one open at a meetup with a fellow smoker. He found it very hot, like many Mac Baren blends can be. I loved it. So individual tastes may vary as well.

 

[Searock Fan]

mold can happen on new or old tobacco though

It certainly can happen to new tobacco. Years ago I bought some tobacco from C&D that arrived with mold. They would not make good on it so I never bought from them again.

 

[Mury]

It certainly can happen to new tobacco. Years ago I bought some tobacco from C&D that arrived with mold. They would not make good on it so I never bought from them again.

i’ve heard horror stories with C&D