Ordering a pipe from Pipes and Cigars, safe?

[gregprince]

Seems to me that we have two distinct issues. One is with the packaging, which Trish has very candidly admitted to, has shared her plan of action to remedy the problem and asked us to assist in monitoring her success. Secondly, is quality assurance on the pipes themselves, which, it seems to me, is an issue with the maker's qa, not the retailer's. If I were to purchase a low end (or high end) pipe made by X, I would certainly not expect perfection. I can't even begin to afford perfection in any pipe. If the pipe was below even an acceptable standard for a pipe in that price range my take away lesson would be, "Don't make that mistake again." I would hold the maker responsible and be thrilled if the retailer were to take on the responsibility for both the maker's poor quality and my hard lesson.
If I were to buy a low end pipe it would be with the expectation that it is low end because it had issues. Finish, flaws, poor plumbing, poor fitting, etc. It is a cheap pipe for a reason (and yes, my definition of a cheap pipe has evolved over the years) and if I expected a pipe free of significant issues I would also expect to pay for it.
I have a few low end pipes that I bought many years ago to fill out a beginner's rotation or more recently just for the fun of restoring. All of them are now decent smokers but all have been reworked to some extent, sometimes very significantly reworked. Would it ever occur to me to ask a retailer to create a silk purse from what I knowingly purchased as an inexpensive sow's ear? Why would he waste valuable shop time that way? That's my job.
One time, about 35 years ago, I bought an amazing pipe in my favorite shape, the grain was astonishing. The first time I smoked it a problem developed that was clearly related to a hidden flaw. The retailer and maker's rep saw to it that the pipe was replaced with one very similar. Was I happy? Not really, the original was a one in a million, but they were more than fair and did all that I could have reasonably asked for. If it had not been such a high end pipe I would have written it off to experience, patched it and smoked on.
Anyway, that's the way I see it right now. If you think I'm off base write it off to the fact that I'm sitting in a hospital bed in pain and hopped up on pain meds.

 

[zekest]

My last 4 purchases from P&C were all for cigars and cigar accessories.
All were packed well.
Maybe the cigar section is closer to Cigars International (CI) who owns P&C and the building that P&C was moved into.

 

[brass]

Trish and Pipes and Cigars made me whole on my one and only issue I've ever had with them. I wholeheartedly endorse them both as a sponsor for this site and one of the best vendors on the Internet. Pax

 

[plugugly]

I think they are generally, great. My last order was on the large side - and only one strip of tape which did make me nervous - but then again, nothing fell out either.

 

[overdrawn]

It's been three weeks, I just wanted to get all the facts out for all who doubted, made their comments, that didn't know what happened, they can see below why I responded the way I did to the original posters question.
Below are the dates, times & substance of every conversation with P&C in chronological order, starting with my very first dealing with P&C:
May 6, 15 1:56pm

Called P&C, about adding Nording Viking Pipes to my collection. Sxxxxxxe from Customer Support informed me the Viking line was no longer available, I needed to check out the Nording Classics, they were the replacements for the Vikings & were a reputable Pipe, rival to Peterson’s. I would have to check them out & get back with her, I looked at generic photo's, they looked nice, they were close to the Viking line in appearance.
May 11, 15 10:10AM

Called P&C, Axxxxxn would have Sxxxxxxe call me back.
May 15, 15

9:31am called P&C, Left Message for Sxxxxxxe
May 18, 15 9:58AM

Called P&C, talked to Dxxxxxs, ordered 1) Nording Rustic Bent Billiard, 1) Nording Rustic Bent Bulldog, 1) Rustic bent Rhodesian (out of stock) 16740xxx she placed order on hold for me till I decided on replacement pipe for the one out of stock.
4:58PM Called Sxxxxxxe, Dxxxxxs would have Sxxxxxxe call me back on the pipes we talked about earlier.
May 19, 15 10:23AM

Called Dxxxxxs, Purchased 3 Pipes, 1 Nording bent Rustic Bulldog, 1 Nording Classic Rustic bent Billiard, 1 Nording bent Classic Smooth Rhodesian (Replacement for the Nording Rustic Rhodesian) to add with my Nording Viking collection. Order # 167402xxx
May 21, 15 10:42AM

Received Pipe order in mail, First obvious problem, P&C shipped Nording Rustic Bent Billiard with missing green Nording pouch, not in the box. Also looking at the Pipes, noticed Nordic Billiard Pipe only with half finish on the shank, half bare, no laquer type finish on. Same with the Bulldog pipe finish appeared as if someone had held the pipe between sweaty thumb & finger when finish wet, finish was rough & bare on each side of the shank.
2:32PM Called Sxxxxxxe, she sending a pouch out to me, I could send Pipes back for a refund if not satisfied. I wanted an exchange, not a refund, that was not a problem, they could do that.
May 26, 15 10:35AM

Called Dxxxxxs getting information about the "defective" Nording Bent Rustic Billiard & Nording Rustic Bulldog for returning with her “Pipe Guy”.
11:30AM Called, Sxxxxxxe gave name & number of Pipe repair shop. Not interested in fixing pipes, will return them.
12:06PM Dxxxxxs called, gave me Return # RMA 165xxx P&C didn't look at pipe finish as being defective, I would have to pay for return shipping, not a problem, I wanted pipes without defective finish for exchange with good finish
12:50PM Mailed Nording Rustic Bent Billiard & Bulldog to Pipes & Cigars for exchange. P&C only pays shipping on defective pipes, missing finish doesn't constitute defective in P&C's eyes. Paid $5.41 for returning Pipes for exchange.
2:35PM Called, Dxxxxxs for information on the details, I wanted an exchange on the Pipes, She assured me Kxxxn, her Pipe guy, would pick out the best Pipes for an exchange.
May 27, 15 3:54PM

Called P&C, Dxxxxxs Added an additional Nording Bent Smooth Bulldog to be included with the exchanged pipes. she sending new Order # 167402xxx for Nording bent Smooth Natural Bulldog with the exchanged pipes when they get the returned Pipes from me.
May 29, 15

Nording replacement Pipes arrived in the mail, the additional Nording Bent Smooth Bulldog, nice finish, all even, as for the Nording Bulldog & Billiard pipes, they were the same two identical pipes I had just sent back to P&C for an exchange, they had sent the same exact Pipes back to me again, still with bare finish, only with a little polish covering the defect.
June 2, 15 9:05AM

Called P&C, talked to Axxxxxn, explained they sent me the same pipes back, It had been clear in earlier phone conversations I didn't want the defective pipes with bare finish & a little polish to hide the flaw I only wanted an exchange, I was even assured Kxxxn would pick out new pipes without any defects. Axxxxxn gave me another return #166xxx to ship the two Pipes back again.
June 8 15 1:05Pm

Mailed Same exchanged Nording Natural Rustic Bent Bulldog back to P&C. Paid $5.41 shipping again

(Kept the Natural Billiard to show P&C's unsavory tactics to prove what P&C does.
(but in retrospect I didn't have to, trishd verified P&C's tactics in post above when admitted P&C threw a polish on the pipes for good enough & shipped them back out to me)
June 9, 15 2:10PM

Called P&C, left Dxxxxxs a message I wanted to add several more Nording Smooth Pipes to the exchanged order.
2:24PM Called Nikko back, he had left a message about my problem with the pipes & to call him. When he answered I said who I was, the very first thing he began with was to say he had a problem with believing my genuine sincerity about buying any pipes, he didn’t believe I was serious about buying pipes, he didn't ask what was the problem or anything else in the conversation. the problem was I had gotten the same two pipes returned to me multiple times, but I listened to 30 seconds of him spewing out his insulting opinion having to do with his doubts about my sincerity for buying pipes when he should have been addressing why his company was pawning off the same pies on me multiple times. When he finished his 30 second rant, I said no problem, there are other companies I can work with & ended the conversation.
There was nothing about P&C's unsavory tactics of resending defective pipes multiple times or much less, my (high expectations that trishd would have you believe, Where is trishd's response about shipping the same two pipes back to me multiple times, instead tries to take the focus off P&C by making up some sort of factious phone conversation that never happened. Well maybe it's not about having high expectations as much as P&C's business ethics that should be the focus of this issue, it should be about P&C not exchanging defective pipes & sending the same ones multiple times.
12:30AM I posted on PipesMagazine.com I wouldn't use P&C to have members accusing me of having an auspicious first post here, dumping on their good company's reputation.
Anyone who doubts what I say can go up above, read trishd's inauspicious comment, where they admit they threw a polish on the same pipes they sent to me multiple times.
I had actually responded to trishd privately after the statement on the post giving the opportunity to respond before I posted this chronological list of facts, I still haven't heard one word from this person, very scrupulous deviant tactics.
My answer to the original posters question is BEWARE of this company.

 

[jiujitsubowl]

All my orders come from P&C or Aristocob and all have arrived no failure!

 

[tennsmoker]

P&C is no worries, no problems from me. Nothing but good service, fast, and in one piece when it arrives.
Have I had a tin or two bent in the process. Yep. But that just means I get into that tin quicker, which is why I am a pipesmoker: I love my tobacco, bent tin or not.
Rave on Russ and P&C.

 

[bigballdbenny]

I feel that smokingpipes.com has more selection and slightly better prices on production pipes. As far as tobacco goes, pipesandcigars.com has the best price and selection. For accessories, I like to shop around and get hand made (artisan) stuff, like tampers, pouches and racks!

 

[seacaptain]

I am, or have been, a member of many hobby forums over the years and this sort of thread invariably ends in the same way, with few exceptions.
Whenever a business joins a forum to defend themselves, there's a 99% chance they will end up looking worse than if they would have just let the issue die.
This thread is no different.
If you boil down P&C (Trish's) response, here's what you're left with.
1. We use stock photos.
2. Our packaging sucks but (paraphrasing) "it took a beating in transit", "the bubble wrap did it's job", "our employee's aren't trained", "we're asking our customers to do QC for us and report any problems", etc.
3. Our CS employees aren't rude, if you think so, that's your problem.
4. We stand by our products.
I realize P&C isn't asking for my advice, but hey, it's the internet and I have loads of free time this evening, so here goes as far as addressing the points above.
1. It's ok to use stock photos, but your policy on stock photos should be a no questions asked return policy, and you pay return shipping. Anything short of that, and you set yourself up for exactly what happened here.
2. You don't have a packaging problem, you have a management problem. All of your answers were just excuses for management not doing their job and either enforcing policies (assuming they even exist), properly training employees, or providing quality control checks. It's particularly bad form to ask your customers to provide quality control for you by "letting our Customer Service team know ", so we "may be able to pinpoint who is doing the negligent job". Really? You've got to be kidding. If you're relying on customers to do QC work for you, with just a vague hope that you may be able to pinpoint the problem, then you've completely lost control of your shipping warehouse and you need to fire the management staff immediately and hire people who know how to properly run a warehouse operation.
3. A well worn business cliche says that "perception is reality". Your customer perceived that your CS person was rude, so guess what, he WAS rude. It doesn't help matters when you defend your position in a condescending manner by suggesting the customers "expectations are too high for this price point". Really? Again, you've got to be kidding. The header for your Nording section states: "world renowned pipe maker", "exacting standards", "something special". I don't see anything in there about "amateur artisans", "poor craftsmanship", or "uneven finishes". If I were buying a Nording pipe from you, I would expect to receive a special pipe made to exacting standards by a world renowned pipe maker. Your customer had the exact expectations that you led him to believe he should have.
4. You most definitely DO NOT stand by your products. Standing by your products would have meant an immediate replacement for any pipes the customer wasn't satisfied with, including reimbursement for return postage. Had you done that, instead of arguing over a few dollars and sending the same pipes back, none of this would have even seen the light of day. If you want an example of someone standing behind their products and providing exemplary customer service, check out how your competitor, Smokingpipes, handled a Dunhill warrenty issue right here on the forum.
So, in retrospect, was all the time, money wasted, and goodwill lost really worth it? All you would have had to do was send your customer a couple of replacement pipes and eat $5 worth of postage. Instead, you decided to not only blame the customer, but do so publicly on an industry forum. Are there unreasonable customers? Sure there are. Was this one of of them? IT DOESN'T MATTER! The only thing that matters to anyone on the outside looking in is how YOU as a business, handle the situation. The way you handled it has left me with the impression that if I order anything, the picture will not represent what I receive, the packaging will suck, it's my job to provide QC reports to your warehouse, and if anything goes wrong, I better have the correct expectations or I'm going to be paying for return postage out of my own pocket and even then, I will not necessarily have my problem resolved.
Good luck with your business model.

 

[pipesmokingtom]

Looking forward to getting home, loading a pipe and reading this whole thread.

 

[haebar]

I have bought several pipes from them over the last 8 months and didn't have any issues. I returned one of them without any problems. The few times that I have called Customer Service, I have gotten the help that I needed.

 

[mso489]

No problem, in my opinion, with P&C quality control, but some problem in shopping P&C with self-control. They pitch some extra good deals on pipes and especially on tobacco, their own blends and others. Right now this bulk Peter Stokkebye sale -- oof.

 

[Bulldog]

I have made several purchases from P&C over the last several years with no problems. However, like mso489 stated, there website can be dangerous for those suffering from an acute case of PAD or TAD.

 

[prairiedruid]

I just received my order from P&C which consisted of 6 tins and 2 bags of bulk tobacco, 5 corncob pipes, plus some extra tampers and pipe cleaners. Tape was a bit loose on back of box but contents were well packed with airbags and the pipes were in a bubble wrap bag. Tins were loose in bottom but were just fine. Everything looks great and the cob I'm smoking with some Celtic Talisman is putting me in my happy place.
Seen a lot of concerns about the tape being loose on the boxes......maybe need a better quality tape/taper machine.
This is my 2nd order with P&C and I couldn't be happier with the quality and value.

 

[murf]

I have not bought pipes from them in awhile, my last pipe from them was probably before the acquisition by CI. Not for any particular reason, Ijust didnt have the money to buy more pipes.
If there is a problem in the finish of the pipe, isnt that a manufacturer's issue, and not a retailer's issue?

 

[wyfbane]

I got an Il Ceppo Cavalier in the mail from them in perfect shape...and it was shipped with my Hilson +8 tins of drew estate.
They do good things and are good people.

 

[mrenglish]

@murf Typically yes, it is the manufacturers issue. However, all issues are essentially the manufacturers issues and a reputable dealer will handle any issues for them. The dealer would handle the exchange of goods with the customer and the manufacturer would make the dealer whole again. In theory anyway.
My last order from P&C, 4200 pipe cleaners, arrived without issues. But, I have had the usual poor packaging with tins and my one pipe purchase from them was less than stellar, but they exchanged it (at my expense even though their description was incorrect - even when I asked they double check before the order was placed).

 

[phil67]

My last order from P&C, 4200 pipe cleaners, arrived without issues.

4,200 pipe cleaners! No wonder they were out of stock when I placed my last order.

Other than that, 4,200 pipe cleaners in and of themselves would make for a good packing material so I'm not surprised that they they arrived without any issue! :lol:

 

[mrenglish]

@phil, this was a few months ago. It worked out to a $1.50 a bag spread out among Longs tapered bristle, regular bristle and tapered smooth. It does provide a certain comfy feeling though. 8)

 

[Perique]

I've never had a problem with P&C. Probably have ordered a dozen pipes from them and countless tins of tobacco and plenty of bulk. But then, if I did receive a dented tin I would probably just open it up and smoke it. Saves me the dry-time. Plus I feel up like I'm supporting Russ when I spend money there.
Sometimes pipesmokers, like any group of hobbiests, can be a persnickety bunch