Online tobacconist vs local tobacconist
- Thread starter cshubhra
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
I am very lucky to live within a few miles of Allegheny Smokeworks. Good selection of bulks and tinned goods. Really knowledgeable owners, too, and personable, as well. I gladly pay a few bucks more for the privilege of having people that know my tastes and make recommendations based on them.
If the owners were jerks, I wouldn't go there. As it is, it's almost the only place I buy from because I enjoy the experience so much.
If the owners were jerks, I wouldn't go there. As it is, it's almost the only place I buy from because I enjoy the experience so much.
I am new to pipes but prefer my brick and mortar store to the internet. I find it has several advantages. The experience is probably first among them. Having interesting conversations with the staff in the smoking lounge is relaxing and informative. Being able to hold and see a pipe as it actually is rather than a staged photo is important to me as well. Don't forget about supporting the community through shopping locally. Additionally, depending on the store, they sometimes host events. Recently, my local shop had an event featuring Erik Stokkebye. I was able to speak with him and he even signed the sleeve of the 4th Gen pipe I bought. While price is certainly a factor, I think the benefits more than make up for the added expense.
The thing about E-commerce is that unless someone can enforce the shopping habits of the general public, it's still highly competitive.
When the bulb for my home theater projector finally blew, the nearest shop that would even sell anything like that is 2 hours away, and they would most likely mail-order the part.
On-line retailers within North America wanted $300.
In the end I got the part I needed for $30 buying direct from Hong Kong.
If everything costs 90% less shopping directly with the manufacturer, the world is legitimately a better place without retailers.
When the bulb for my home theater projector finally blew, the nearest shop that would even sell anything like that is 2 hours away, and they would most likely mail-order the part.
On-line retailers within North America wanted $300.
In the end I got the part I needed for $30 buying direct from Hong Kong.
If everything costs 90% less shopping directly with the manufacturer, the world is legitimately a better place without retailers.
You may see it that way but, what about the sizable portion of the population which doesn't. Those who do not scrimp or who have the money which allows them to enjoy the benefits of a local retailer. It's not a one dimensional world. I want value for my money which is not necessarily the cheapest price. I drive a luxury vehicle because I enjoy the benefits of such. I don't wait in line for service, a loaner is provided free and I can get routine service done in an hour on request.
If your light bulb arrives not working, would you try and get a replacement free from the local retailer? Not particularly honest, or would you repackage and ship it back to your wholesaler, with required documentation and await a replacement? For me, such transactions are fraught with problems, real and imagined.
If I need a lens or XQD card, I need it now. I do not wish to pay for "one day" UPS or such and wait at home all day so I can sign for receipt.
"Gray market", in my business, is defined as equipment not intended for sale in the US and therefore no warranty coverage unless I register the item. Then, should warranty work be required I must package it and ship to Europe, Mexico or wherever. So my equipment is all under US warranty.
What is your definition, for the purpose of this discussion? I'm intrigued.
Warren, surely you're an NPS member.
Any professional photographer can get free loaners from Canon or Nikon, and they usually bring millions of dollars worth of lenses to the Olympics and most major sporting events.
That all exists totally separate from the retail system.
Do you actually have a retailer that actively carries a selection of $10,000 lenses?
Are you actually going to buy one on a whim if you have a malfunction with your current lens?
Cars were one of the first things I thought of that actually might need dealerships, they're too big and expensive to "just buy two of them" like you can with 99% of everything else that you own.
But...
As soon as we have self driving cars you'll only need two or three distribution hubs in the entire continental U.S. (Sorry, that's going to be yet another program you don't qualify for).
How much of the cost of every car goes to the dealership? I know it's not 90%, but I'm betting Amazon is going to be the first big competition for Tesla once self driving cars get the kinks worked out.
Any professional photographer can get free loaners from Canon or Nikon, and they usually bring millions of dollars worth of lenses to the Olympics and most major sporting events.
That all exists totally separate from the retail system.
Do you actually have a retailer that actively carries a selection of $10,000 lenses?
Are you actually going to buy one on a whim if you have a malfunction with your current lens?
Cars were one of the first things I thought of that actually might need dealerships, they're too big and expensive to "just buy two of them" like you can with 99% of everything else that you own.
But...
As soon as we have self driving cars you'll only need two or three distribution hubs in the entire continental U.S. (Sorry, that's going to be yet another program you don't qualify for).
How much of the cost of every car goes to the dealership? I know it's not 90%, but I'm betting Amazon is going to be the first big competition for Tesla once self driving cars get the kinks worked out.
That is one way to look at it. Another way is that technology has made obsolete many of the costs we impose on smaller and local merchants, like paperwork requirements, lawsuit fears, regulatory compliance and taxes.
Either we allow our local guys to compete, or they get blown away by the lower prices online.
Warren - You pretty much nailed what I meant by "Gray Market", at least from a high level. Digging down a little deeper, when the product not intended for distribution in the US comes in, it hurts the retailers, (and legitimate E-tailers), that pay the freight in the form of taxes and tariffs, and follow the rules and regulations. I would also suspect that there is no tax revenue generated by Gray Market deals. 9From either the business or the consumer) Not so bad until you stop and think about how taxes will ultimately go up to make up for the shortfall.
In the pipe world, I can remember the issues with Castello and Dunhill. A lot of B&M's suffered.
Also, when dealing in the Gray Market, your not guaranteed a genuine product.
In the pipe world, I can remember the issues with Castello and Dunhill. A lot of B&M's suffered.
Also, when dealing in the Gray Market, your not guaranteed a genuine product.
Well, in photography, there legit American retailers who sell properly marked "Gray Market" lenses and bodies. When you are starting out it is a good way to buy big glass from Nikon and others where warranty problems are not likely.
I, now days, purchase glass and bodies from NikonUSA. Filters, cards, batteries, etc usually come from a NYC vendor. If I need a lens repair or cleaning, Nikon can have a loaner at my door before I send in the repair. I also have an insurance policy for stupidity. It covers drownings, drop kicks, theft, third party damage, etc.
My local photo shop leans Canon and doesn't carry a great inventory of Nikon products. Not a complaint, it does well and more power to them.
Nikon Professional Service is a great program indeed.
I, now days, purchase glass and bodies from NikonUSA. Filters, cards, batteries, etc usually come from a NYC vendor. If I need a lens repair or cleaning, Nikon can have a loaner at my door before I send in the repair. I also have an insurance policy for stupidity. It covers drownings, drop kicks, theft, third party damage, etc.
My local photo shop leans Canon and doesn't carry a great inventory of Nikon products. Not a complaint, it does well and more power to them.
Nikon Professional Service is a great program indeed.
As I have said before I live in Chicago, about a 10-15 min walk to Iwan Ries. I stop in about once a month and leave with at least one tin. With taxes it cost about 14.00 for a 50gr or 2 oz. tin.
On the face of it, thats not a good deal but I feel good about supporting a local business. My poor contribution may not keep them in business, but it can't hurt.
On the face of it, thats not a good deal but I feel good about supporting a local business. My poor contribution may not keep them in business, but it can't hurt.
If my local tobacconist didn't carry Esoterica, I would never buy from them. Its a no brainer, when you can get a 50 gram tin of Samuel Gawith online for $9.33 why in the world would I pay $21.95 for the same exact tin of tobacco? I'm a patient man, I can wait the day or two it takes for delivery. With State taxes, the B&M's just cannot compete with the online retailers. Even the pipes are way over priced. I don't feel guilty about it in the least. As a consumer, I have to look out for my best interests. In my case that means keeping my family sheltered, comfortable and well fed... while still being able to afford little luxuries of my own such as pipes and pipe tobaccos.
It isn't taxes* that make B+Ms more expensive, it's less volume (so higher purchase costs) and overhead. Lots of overhead.
*In some instances you pay state tax on online purchases. Some you don't apparently. I haven't studied where and why, but eventually I bet that all states get their pound of flesh from online retailers no matter where they say they are domiciled.
*In some instances you pay state tax on online purchases. Some you don't apparently. I haven't studied where and why, but eventually I bet that all states get their pound of flesh from online retailers no matter where they say they are domiciled.
I would agree that overhead and volume has a big part in the prices, however, taxes and tariffs play a big part as well. You have the supplier that had a tax increase, (pretty much every year), and that increase is passed on to the distributor. The distributor also has had tax increases on the tobacco he brings into the State, (in this case, I am going by Virginia State laws as they are the ones that I am most familiar with). The distributor then passes that cost on to the retailer. The retailer also gets hit with a tobacco tax on any tobacco product that he sells. That's a triple whammy on all tobacco that the retailer sells. I have watched as bulk tobacco prices went up a buck twenty an ounce in one day, (July 1st in Virginia when new laws are enacted), and it was all due to passing on the tax increase(s).
As far as some online retailers charging taxes, if you have your base of operation in Virginia and you sell anything to someone in Virginia, you charge them the sales tax. (From my understanding, it works that way in pretty much every State) Other online retailers went through this headache a few years back and have since developed software that will charge the sales tax to which ever State they are shipping to. They are also responsible for paying that State its taxes owed from the sale. The tobacco online retailers are getting ready to experience the same headache and ultimately will have the same outcome. We, as the consumer will feel the effects when that happens. The price for having to do the extra work, (i.e. overhead), will be passed on. It will be the only way to keep operating.
Now, the online retailers do not have many of the overhead costs to deal with that the B&M's do, and the prices will still remain, (in all probability), lower than what your local B&M is charging, but I don't think that we will see the large difference in prices that we see today.
Still, I will continue to shop both online and at my local B&M. I think that the B&M's still have a lot to offer even if the cheapest price isn't one of those things.
As far as some online retailers charging taxes, if you have your base of operation in Virginia and you sell anything to someone in Virginia, you charge them the sales tax. (From my understanding, it works that way in pretty much every State) Other online retailers went through this headache a few years back and have since developed software that will charge the sales tax to which ever State they are shipping to. They are also responsible for paying that State its taxes owed from the sale. The tobacco online retailers are getting ready to experience the same headache and ultimately will have the same outcome. We, as the consumer will feel the effects when that happens. The price for having to do the extra work, (i.e. overhead), will be passed on. It will be the only way to keep operating.
Now, the online retailers do not have many of the overhead costs to deal with that the B&M's do, and the prices will still remain, (in all probability), lower than what your local B&M is charging, but I don't think that we will see the large difference in prices that we see today.
Still, I will continue to shop both online and at my local B&M. I think that the B&M's still have a lot to offer even if the cheapest price isn't one of those things.
I'll weigh in. I currently work on Saturdays for a local cigar shop. Granted we are a small town shop, but the owners typically have no more than 4-5 brands on hand. These days even less. I get very frustrated with their lack of concern. They give me the excuse that people buy online and that is hurting us. While I agree to a point they could offer a different experience than just walking in a buying a cigar and walking out. I have mentioned having some seating, but the wife doesn't want smoking in the store since she has her small children in there during the week. :roll: She is really only there for a check.
They stock very little pipe tobacco and it is 3+ years old. And never keep any pipes. I don't buy anything from them and get all my supplies online. So sometimes a B&M doesn't deserve the business. I make my money and spend it elsewhere.
They stock very little pipe tobacco and it is 3+ years old. And never keep any pipes. I don't buy anything from them and get all my supplies online. So sometimes a B&M doesn't deserve the business. I make my money and spend it elsewhere.
voorhees: My sympathies with your employment. It's pretty obvious the owners are not trying to be successful or, simply have no idea how to. Perhaps they are simply satisfied with the status quo.
Yeah, you have to have a deep passion for this stuff in order to make it in the business today. It's a shame cause I dream of being a tobacconist... I would absolutely love it! But it's just too risky these days to get into it, and then you hear about these lame tobacconist that sell cheap RYO and half ass everything, it's just a shame.
I haven't heard anything about this. Can you please elaborate?
A few years back a big hoopla was made about people not paying taxes on products they bought online. Raised a big stink. As a result, the retailers, (primarily those that were well know such as Williams Sonoma, Sportsmans Guide, etc.) were the targets. They used the same excuses that the Tobacco online retailers are using today. It's complicated, would cost a lot of money to upgrade software, it's the purchasers responsibility to pay those taxes. It went on for a while and then the Feds came up with the "if you are a certain size" rule. (Which the size has grown smaller as time has gone on). It's now coming to the Tobacco Industry. In the end, the Online retailers will have to upgrade in order to comply with Federal law. That should be a real fun time. I see the fuss raised about retailers, (or at least certain retailers), that have issues now whenever they do a simple upgrade. As is was put earlier in this thread, (very roughly quoted), the Government will end up getting it's money.
Thanks for expanding on your original post. It figures, government just has to put their hand in everything, don't they. Do we have a time frame here, or is it unclear when this will actually go into affect?
This just sucks! This was a major bonus to shopping online! Now that I think about it I have seen places like Amazon implementing this. I'm upset about now but this just makes me feel better about going crazy these past few years with my tobacco purchases and I need to keep it up before this goes into affect.
This just sucks! This was a major bonus to shopping online! Now that I think about it I have seen places like Amazon implementing this. I'm upset about now but this just makes me feel better about going crazy these past few years with my tobacco purchases and I need to keep it up before this goes into affect.
- Status