On the subject of aged tobaccos, and those illusive adjectives...

[monty55]

So I have gathered that, more or less the ageing of tobaccos is a fine thing. And that most, more or less, get better with age. People have "cellars" as it were. So this all begs the questions... Do they sell "aged" tobacco, or is that always done on this end? If the answer is negative, why not? And secondly, and more importantly for my purposes, what is a new smoker to do? Do I really have to store tins for 3 to 6 years or longer to get the full taste of that tobacco blend? Being new, and having mostly estate pipes, some smoked, some not, I still have yet to experience any flavor profiles that I would describe as "creamy" or "sweet" (aromatics excluded of course)or any of the adjectives I read so often describing the finer aspects of certain tobacco blends. Is this something that is an acquired "taste", that I develop only after years of pipe smoking? Is this real or subjective? I mean is it really sweet, or creamy ... or is it just not as acrid or bitter as others? Is this like the descriptions of fine wines that are described as "some kind of fruit with "hints" of certain berries, finished off by a subtle blah blah blah"... taste and flavors that I NEVER taste when I taste that wine, no matter how hard I try. Does this only happen with "aged" tobaccos? Does this only happen when the pipe is broke in and has a cake? I'm going through tobacco like crazy trying to find these flavors, but alas they elude my palate. Any guidance here would be appreciated.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

That's quite a few questions...
Ok, I think of cellaring as just another aspect of the hobby. Some tobaccos really improve, some may not, and most I think of as perfect, popped fresh from the store. Aging is just something I am enjoying as an added aspect to enjoying different types of Virginia leaf. Sort of like wine, you just read and play with the jars to see what different types of enjoyment I can pull from tobaccos, especially since they are so cheap (compared to cigar or cigarettes).
Yes, I have traded some blends, volume for age. But, I have only done it between friends, not as a public spectacle.
No, you don't have to wait years to enjoy the tobacco. This whole aging thing is mostly an American phenomena; however, it is catching worldwide, according to rumors posted on here, lol.
I don't spend every moment with a pipe hanging out of my mouth tasting and thinking about the tobacco. However, I do occasionally stop and reflect on it, while working at my bench or in the fields. I do sometimes set back on the porch and spend the entire bowl thinking and tasting. It is something that you have to be "in the moment" to really do well, with your mind focused on what your tongue is experiencing.
But, for the most part, I keep a pipe in mouth out of habit, maybe addiction, maybe just enjoying the tobacco passively. I like it dammit, lol.
But, do what you want. I'd say that after a day of watching people come and go from the local Briary, that I am pretty sure 90% of pipe men just buy one tobacco and a few pipes and enjoy them solitude throughout their day. They are as loyal to their blend as a cigarette smoker is to theirs. It's just that their pipe is their thing. My hats off to them. Everyone is different. Find your own thing, but just enjoy whatever it is that do.
As far as all of the other questions, you might try perusing the years of conversations on these subjects. Or, someone else may come along and help you with those. But, kick off your shoes, read through the articles and conversations. And, definitely check out the radio show. Brian Levine is great about covering most of these issues, and is sure to knock a chuckle out of you.
Welcome to the forums. I hope that my own enthusiasm for the parts of the hobby that I enjoy influence you to empty your pallets like a lot of us do, ha ha! ::

 

[brudnod]

Welcome Monty,

There is also that secondary gain of buying pipe tobacco when the price happens to be good AND before the taxes increase further making the acquisition of tobacco more odious. Yep, that is part of cellaring experience...

 

[cortezattic]

I think G.L. Pease plans the release of some of his blends with a 6 month lead time -- that being the interval that exhibits the greatest change due to aging. Other significant milestones in the process are detectable after 1 yr., 2 yrs., 5 yrs., 10 yrs., with diminishing returns as aging progresses. I think Pease said 20 yrs. is the practical limit; at any rate, there is a point at which a blend will decline. Believe it or not, I actually prefer "younger" blends.
For Virginias, the sweetness commonly mentioned is really there; but it's usually a grassy, cane-like sweetness, or the more mellow sweetness often attributed to something like a well cooked vegetable. The sweetness of well cooked carrots comes to mind -- but I'm not referring to the taste of carrots, just the sweetness they carry. Other veggies have varying degrees of sweetness too. In aged Virginias the sweetness can darken into honey flavored tones, caramel, or molasses, etc. Part of the fun is trying to locate and identify where the sweetness is in a blend. And of course, not all blends are sweet.
As for the adjectives and descriptions, I think it's a good exercise if you have the time and inclination to comtemplate those things. Start by reading Pease's article, "Don't Think Of A Purple Giraffe."

 

[monty55]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Cortez, sounds like G.L. Pease is thinking, because that is what I was getting at. I said to myself if I was a tobacconist I would make some major investments for the future, age some of my stock and start selling my blends by Vintage, like the same wine is more expensive as it gets older. The profits would get better each year. I was with you through the carrots and veggies, but then you started talking about aged Virginias using words like honey, caramel, molasses, as "tones" and you lost me, insomuch that I have never tasted this in a pipe. So, I don't get to those yummy deserts until I eat my veggies for years? And you said "Part of the fun is trying to locate and identify where the sweetness is in a blend." ok, I assume you mean which tobacco leaves in the blend are lending the sweetness you experience smoking it? And how pray tell do you know when you have correctly "located and identified" said tobacco, or is this an endless guessing game to occupy the mind while pondering the sweetness of the smoke? Anyway, good stuff all around. Thanks all.

 

[cortezattic]

Well, don't over-think this thing. It'll all come to you in due time. By tones I mean sweetness can be bright and sugary (think cotton candy, marshmallow), or progressively darker (honey, brown sugar, molasses); fruity, cereal, nutty, spice-like or vegetable -- nothing more complicated. By where the sweetness is located I mean how you perceive it, on the tongue, in the saliva, on the palate, in the nose and sinuses, as an aftertaste (called "the finish"), or in the air (room note).
There is so much more... check out what a real epicurean smoker has developed to keep track of these things:

Adam Smith's blog, Schmitzbitz: "Tobacco Flavours And Nuances". He's one of the best at identifying and articulating these things.
Of course, smoking Prince Albert in a cob is an equally valid way to enjoy the hobby. :lol:

 

[monty55]

Thank you Cortez! Can't wait to dive into these readings. Thanks so much, this is right up my alley. You give sound advice. I quite often over think things lol. I'm just gonna load pipes and smoke them.. the rest will fall into place in time. Thanks again.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

What blends have you tried?

Not all are sweet. Can you differentiate the taste of a Va verses a VaPer? I had to start really tasting for nuances between extremely different blends before it clicked with my taste buds. Also, how you smoke matters. The slower (and I mean really damn slow) you smoke, the more flavors you'll pull out of it. Puffing, you won't taste much.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

I get pretty tired of some of the other vocabulary in tobacco reviews as well. What in the world does "round" taste like? I can't think that it's anything but an abuse of the English language.
As a beginner I can say that I've had good success with a quality VaPer blend, and the sweetness was pretty up front. Whether or not all the other flavours people describe are real or imagined I can't say, but I'm just going to have to go with what I have seen myself and keep experimenting from there.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/put-that-in-your-pipe/the-fickle-nature-of-first-impressions/

"Mi piace; non mi piace."

I like that.

With subjective topics like this I find it best to first find out where my tastes and the reviewers align or differ, and after that I can start to draw conclusions.

 

[hawke]

Taste and color are two of the hardest things for me to describe. How do you teach someone how to ride a bicycle?
Apple pie tastes good. What does it taste like? Apple Pie.

Latikia tastes like Latakia. Camel Dung some say. Well Im not gonna taste Camel Dung! ...but I will try Latakia. LOL
Do you know how it tastes...??? I guess we will be reduced to simple terms as Cortez said, and "try it".
And yet isnt it fun to try and describe tastes? Why is that? Cause it conjours up those reminders of things we have already tasted. Yippie!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One of our members, Pruss, is in the coffee industry and wrote several very useful posts on tasting and flavors. I know in the beginning it is very frustrating, and I was in your positions once. For the life of me, I couldn't understand how someone could call smoke, lime or lemony or hay-like. But, old dogs can learn new tricks.
I suggest reading through these posts...

Post one

Post two

Post three
He covers a lot of ground with things to try to develop these awareness of these nuances of taste.

It is just an aspect of communicating the tobaccos. However, if you prefer, just smoke and don't worry about it. It's just one way some of us appreciate the hobby, but not everyone enjoys the same things.

 

[monty55]

Michael, Thank you! Just finished reading those posts by Pruss. Great stuff. Can't wait for part 4. Learning all this is almost as much fun as doing it... almost
Cheers!

 

[davidintexas]

I hear you Monty. I felt somewhat the same way when I started out, and for the first six months afterwards. How can you be so descriptive of something that doesn't seem to taste much different, one from the other, except for Latakia vs an aromatic possibly. With me, since I don't smoke more than once or twice a week, it took quite awhile before I started noticing nuances of flavor that I didn't before, from the same tobacco. I think with me it was a combination of both the tobacco's flavors mellowing as it aged, but even more especially, my taste buds were starting to adapt to the tastes of tabacco, so I was developing and learning to taste the tobaccos. I assume that if you are a daily smoker that the process would take sooner since the taste buds are being presented with it more often. This process is much the same way as eating new foods that you are not used to. I had not been a smoker of any kind prior to a year ago, so this has been my experience. At times it has been frustrating but patience is a virtue in this hobby, much as it is in any other venture. But, there is light at the end of the proverbial tunnel, and starting out, I didn't think I'd ever be able to say that. So, you're not alone, and it does get better. And reading these different threads will definitely shorten the learning curve. I feel that it has for me, as many here who have been smoking far longer than I have had much information and wisdom to relate. And that has helped me tremendously. Happy smoking! :D