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Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
Not sure if anyone here is following this. It happened less than 50 miles from me. download.jpeg download (1).jpegimages.jpeg
East Palestine, Ohio. Rumor is that the train crew saw a car with a seized bearing, and surveillance video from Salem, OH, 20 miles away, showed the train rolling with smoke coming from a wheel. The crew was told to continue, and sure enough the car derailed and caused a massive spill of Vinyl Chloride, the precursor to PVC. Norfolk Southern also apparently "lost the manifest" and didn't know what else had spilled, but now we know that the train also carried other carcinogenic chemicals, and that those chemicals spilled, too.

A week ago, they set the VC on fire in a controlled burn. When you burn VC, it bonds with water vapor. It releases phosgene gas (a chemical weapon). It's very, very bad. Fish are dying in the local creeks, which drain directly into the Ohio River. Water testing has shown the presence of high levels of the toxic chemicals spilled. That black cloud of death was blown right to Pittsburgh, not to mention the poor, stepped on folks who happened to live in East Palestine.

They're being told to go get healh checkups so that they have a "baseline health report," because they're going to have health affects years down the road. This is not just going away, like people are being told. If it gets into the groundwater (likely at this point) it's going to make that place uninhabitable...not to mention what affect it will have on the Ohio.

Excuse me, but I am so fucking sick over this. Years of deregulation, cost cutting and ignoring of safety measures has directly led to this. We just had a rail strike, with rail workers complaining of safety being undercut and warning us of a disaster...and our leaders (both sides, read that again) decided to quell their voice and allow the rail companies to continue as before.

Watching this be rather actively buried in the news cycle (hey look, a balloon!) is killing me. These are my people. It may be just some small hick town in some Rust Belt backwater to the rest of the world, but this is so close to home for me and those people are victims, as is our environment and this disaster is largely going unnoticed.

Just do me a favor, and don't shut up about this. I don't give a shit who you want to blame, who in our government you feel failed (they all have, in this case), what you think could have been done or should be done...I don't give a shit. I just want those people in East Palestine to be heard, because up until now no one cared...and by and large, no one cares now.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,014
16,298
Nothing new (in principle).

Read about the groundwater contamination which was known to exist and covered up for DECADES at Camp Lejeune (the Marine Corps HQ base) in North Carolina.

Hundreds of thousands of young men who signed up to defend their contry were poisoned in ways that were/are unrecoverable (mostly manifested as nerve demyelination diseases and digestive tract cancers).

Welcome to humans being human.
 
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didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
10,664
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SE WI
Sounds like the RTC in question who told them to keep going will lose his job, and never work for the railroad again. Also sounds like they had a bad Axle detector on the rails which will need to be replaced. Then they should go through all of them to make sure this doesn't happen again. Scary stuff. During my 8 week training period as a conductor, they spent a lot of that time showing us videos of train accidents.
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
Nothing new (in principle).

Read about the groundwater contamination which was known to exist and covered up for DECADES at Camp Lejeune (the Marine Corps HQ base) in North Carolina.

Hundreds of thousands of young men who signed up to defend their contry were poisoned in ways that were/are unrecoverable (mostly manifested as nerve demyelination diseases and digestive tract cancers).

Welcome to humans being human.
No. Not humans being human, I won't accept a shrug off. Camp LeJuene is a terrible story, but it doesn't negate what's going on in Ohio right now, or give us an excuse to shrug this off. All of this is unacceptable. Both of these events were preventable. Both will be covered up to one extent or another. That's not "humans being humans," that's humans failing each other...likely because of money, profits to protect.

If we just shrug this off as "humans being humans," it'll just keep happening.

If you were in East Palestine, or downwind or downstream, you'd likely not accept it as "humans being humans."
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
Sounds like the RTC in question who told them to keep going will lose his job, and never work for the railroad again. Also sounds like they had a bad Axle detector on the rails which will need to be replaced. Then they should go through all of them to make sure this doesn't happen again. Scary stuff. During my 8 week training period as a conductor, they spent a lot of that time showing us videos of train accidents.
The hot box detector in Salem (20 miles before East Palestine) didn't detect the literal fire coming from the wheel on the car. The detector in East Palestine did, and the emergency brakes initiated, so I've read. By that point, obviously, it was too late. I don't think NS has commented yet.

I know that the inspection time was lowered from 10 minutes per car to three, and then from three minutes to 90 seconds. Add to the fact that the railroad has been running on skeleton crews who are overworked and it's easy to see this disaster coming from years ago.
 
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Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
This looks really, really, bad. Clean up will take decades if at all and the legal industrial complex will be in full gear working to pass the buck around and away from those ultimately responsible. I doubt if any good comes out of this. Good luck.
It is. Please make people aware of it, if you can...it's the only way we might have a shot at this one being the one that might change things and bring some accountability...but that "legal industrial complex" wants us all to shut up and forget. It's just some hick town in Ohio, after all, right?
 
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K.E. Powell

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 20, 2022
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It is difficult for me to add much than what you did already, Jay. In particular, you nailed it by framing this as a workers' issue. Unions are hardly perfect, but when business criminals have no checks on their power and wealth, these are the kind of results we get. I'll leave at that, as I know talking politics is frowned upon. Just know I share your rage on this.
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
It is difficult for me to add much than what you did already, Jay. In particular, you nailed it by framing this as a workers' issue. Unions are hardly perfect, but when business criminals have no checks on their power and wealth, these are the kind of results we get. I'll leave at that, as I know talking politics is frowned upon. Just know I share your rage on this.
Thanks, you've distilled a few points in a rational way that I'm still too enraged to really articulate. Please tell people about this, if you can.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,014
16,298
If we just shrug this off as "humans being humans," it'll just keep happening.

If you were in East Palestine, or downwind or downstream, you'd likely not accept it as "humans being humans."

You missed my point entirely.

Stuff like this will continue to happen regardless of steps taken. Always has and always will. Humans are hardwired in ways that make it inevitable.

As for I'd think differently if I was personally affected, no, it wouldn't. Why? Because physics doesn't care about human emotion.

How can I be sure that would be my reaction? Because I both worked on base and lived on base for 2.5 years at the peak of Lejeune's water contamination, which puts me in the top one half of one percent of the entire exposed population.
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
The EPA and the rest of the Alphabet Soup Group aren’t going to help. It’s not really in their SOPs
The Ohio EPA doesn't exactly have a "not being paid off by industry" record. I could go on but I won't. Just please, any way you can, keep talking about East Palestine and this disaster to whoever will hear you.
 
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Reactions: anotherbob
Mar 1, 2014
3,658
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I was sure this would be a meme thread, across all of social media the name "Ohio" is synonymous with apocalyptic disaster.
Last report I saw a few years ago was most gas stations don't work and most buildings don't have windows.

With this latest event it looks like Americans have finally created their own version of Chernobyl.
 
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Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
You missed my point entirely.

Stuff like this will continue to happen regardless of steps taken. Always have and always will. Humans are hardwired in ways that make it inevitable.

As for I'd think differently if I was personally affected, no, it wouldn't. Why? Because physics doesn't care about human emotion.

How can I be sure that would be my reaction? Because I both worked on base and lived on base for 2.5 years at the peak of Lejeune's water contamination, which puts me in the top one half of one percent of the entire exposed population.
I agree that accidents are going to happen. What doesn't need to happen are coverups, safety regulations being cut for profit's sake, poor people having their lives destroyed because of it. An accident like this was preventable. It happened because the rail companies decided that safety cost too much.

If you choose to just shrug it off and say "nothing can be done," you're just taking the easy way out because plenty can be done to prevent shit like this. Plenty. We can start with accountability. I'm not suggesting that you go out and start protesting...I'm asking you to make people aware of this disaster so the people in East Palestine might have a chance at being heard and seeing some type of justice.

And, for what it's worth to you, I feel just as enraged that you were literally poisoned while you were serving the Nation as I do about this train wreck. You might be willing to shrug it off as humans being humans, but I certainly am not willing to do that. You were intentionally wronged. I hope you were compensated.
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
I was sure this would be a meme thread, across all of social media the name "Ohio" is synonymous with apocalyptic disaster.
Last report I saw a few years ago was most gas stations don't work and most buildings don't have windows.

With this latest event it looks like Americans have finally created their own version of Chernobyl.
Hahaha no Ohio, at least the northeast part where I live is quite nice. I'm convinced all of that stuff online is Ohioans hoping to keep people from moving here.

No one's going to be moving to East Palestine, though. Please, please make people aware.

East Palestine is in an area known as the Rust Belt, once home to tons of heavy industry but is now fairly depressed.
 
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Mar 1, 2014
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Events like this are where the corporate "green" movement crumbles into pure hypocrisy.
"Co2" is easy to advertise and monetize, but admitting companies screwed up and need to commit to do what's necessary to keep the water clean? You can't make up a marketing campaign about the end of the world just for dirty ground water, and companies can't perpetually guilt you the consumer for being the problem, so "clean water" gets zero traction in the media.
 
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georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,014
16,298
I'm not sure how or why you equate recognizing reality as "shrugging something off".

The, um, discussion I would love to have with the people responsible for poisoning me and my friends for life is a separate thing.

The other one being the realization that going full Mexican Cartel Retribution Mode on them might be satisfying in a primal way, but would change nothing. In the past, in the moment, or in the future.
 
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ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,392
70,232
61
Vegas Baby!!!
I was sure this would be a meme thread, across all of social media the name "Ohio" is synonymous with apocalyptic disaster.
Last report I saw a few years ago was most gas stations don't work and most buildings don't have windows.

With this latest event it looks like Americans have finally created their own version of Chernobyl.
People actively live 15 miles from Chernobyl.

Everyone wants to prove points.

It doesn’t take a conspiracy or black boxes. Human are fallible. Exceedingly fallible.

My money is on incompetence, not cover up or greed.
 
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