Although my grammar at times may leave a lot to be desired, please understand that being Canadian I have a more than fair understanding of social welfare taxes my friend. But at the same time I will apologize for the misunderstanding noting I was trying to illustrate economic restraint here and that I did not use the word "greed" in the same sentence as "artisan". In fact I stated I was not judging artisans negatively so I hope that helps clarify things.
Newbie Trying to Understand Hand Made Pipe Price Values
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When it comes to factoring the cost of making a pipe there are so many variables that there is no one objective answer. Weber was giving a price for a basic machine made factory pipe, turned out in multiples, with a molded stem.
It was capable of carrying out its basic function, allowing the smoker to smoke tobacco. At that level, $120 for a briar pipe isn't out of line. There's the manufacturers' cost, the distributors' mark ups, and the retailers' mark ups. There's little hand work, little concern for quality control, etc, because there isn't the margin at that price point for much more. Cobs can do the same thing, for a lot less money because the materials are cheaper, and the construction is more rudimentary. And cobs also do a good job of providing the smoker with a good smoke.
But buying a pipe isn't solely an objective choice. Read the posts here and on other enthusiast's forums and you encounter a wider range of subjectivity. With one-of-a-kind artisan pipes, the price range is all over the place. At the high end, where prices can soar into 5 figures, people are buying a lot more than function. They're buying art, design, esthetics, history, perceived quality of execution, bragging rights, exclusivity, brand, and/or a lot more subjective considerations.
Also at the high end, a carver may have a lot more wastage, briar that doesn't meet that carver's metric for quality. So there's a much higher cost for materials, as well as time and labor lost to the vagaries of the wood. You're not just paying for the pipe, but for all of the costs involved with the duds.
Asking what a pipe should cost is like asking what a car should cost. It all depends on what you're looking for. If all you need is a device for delivering nicotine, you can find that at a modest price point. If you're looking for more, the price starts to climb.
It was capable of carrying out its basic function, allowing the smoker to smoke tobacco. At that level, $120 for a briar pipe isn't out of line. There's the manufacturers' cost, the distributors' mark ups, and the retailers' mark ups. There's little hand work, little concern for quality control, etc, because there isn't the margin at that price point for much more. Cobs can do the same thing, for a lot less money because the materials are cheaper, and the construction is more rudimentary. And cobs also do a good job of providing the smoker with a good smoke.
But buying a pipe isn't solely an objective choice. Read the posts here and on other enthusiast's forums and you encounter a wider range of subjectivity. With one-of-a-kind artisan pipes, the price range is all over the place. At the high end, where prices can soar into 5 figures, people are buying a lot more than function. They're buying art, design, esthetics, history, perceived quality of execution, bragging rights, exclusivity, brand, and/or a lot more subjective considerations.
Also at the high end, a carver may have a lot more wastage, briar that doesn't meet that carver's metric for quality. So there's a much higher cost for materials, as well as time and labor lost to the vagaries of the wood. You're not just paying for the pipe, but for all of the costs involved with the duds.
Asking what a pipe should cost is like asking what a car should cost. It all depends on what you're looking for. If all you need is a device for delivering nicotine, you can find that at a modest price point. If you're looking for more, the price starts to climb.
If you are new to pipe smoking perhaps buy a good, but not astronomically good, pipe. You can easily get that for 100 bucks or less.
Buying the very best at the onset seems a bit silly to me. For that matter questioning the value of the very high end pipes at the onset of pipe smoking seems a bit silly too.
Buying the very best at the onset seems a bit silly to me. For that matter questioning the value of the very high end pipes at the onset of pipe smoking seems a bit silly too.
Now that one Seldom I will not apologize for, asking a question. You likely would not know but not apologizing is very un-Canadian; in this case I have no choice.
This is a forum which I understood invites beginners and their questions to the point they have a thread dedicated to it for beginners which I clearly see myself as. In my question I clearly indicated I was trying to learn. Pipesmagazine also have a very well narrated thread on what belittling and rudeness is in regards to sarcasm if anyone cares to read it as I did. I do not believe in a silly question if the question is intended for advanced knowledge as mine was. There are several knowledgeable people in here who have responded and that is evident in their respectful answers and for those helpful answers I am grateful because I learned a great deal. Silly answers on the other hand are a diversion intended to hide the truth and or protect wounded egos.
A number of intelligent people have this to say about questions in fact:
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” – Bruce Lee
“A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of idea.” – John Ciardi
“Learn avidly. Question repeatedly what you have learned. Analyze it carefully. Then put what you have learned into practice intelligently.” – Edward Cocker
To refer to your comments: I did not buy the "very best" nor was I "questioning the value of very high pipes". Those words are yours sir not mine and referring to my questions sarcastically as silly given the circumstances is definitely not the behaviour I attribute to the gentlemanly pursuit of pipe smoking.
This is a forum which I understood invites beginners and their questions to the point they have a thread dedicated to it for beginners which I clearly see myself as. In my question I clearly indicated I was trying to learn. Pipesmagazine also have a very well narrated thread on what belittling and rudeness is in regards to sarcasm if anyone cares to read it as I did. I do not believe in a silly question if the question is intended for advanced knowledge as mine was. There are several knowledgeable people in here who have responded and that is evident in their respectful answers and for those helpful answers I am grateful because I learned a great deal. Silly answers on the other hand are a diversion intended to hide the truth and or protect wounded egos.
A number of intelligent people have this to say about questions in fact:
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” – Bruce Lee
“A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of idea.” – John Ciardi
“Learn avidly. Question repeatedly what you have learned. Analyze it carefully. Then put what you have learned into practice intelligently.” – Edward Cocker
To refer to your comments: I did not buy the "very best" nor was I "questioning the value of very high pipes". Those words are yours sir not mine and referring to my questions sarcastically as silly given the circumstances is definitely not the behaviour I attribute to the gentlemanly pursuit of pipe smoking.
Whenever I see this I wince. We're all just people. Some are sophisticated, some are knuckleheads, some are highly educated and some are blue collar.
Gentlemanly may be your pursuit, but it's not everyone's.
Either way.....keep puffing and keep asking questions. Just don't expect every response "to go your way", we are a worldwide forum with a very diverse populace.
I don't expect it to go my way at all; I also do not expect to have words attributed to my question which were not there. I am correcting your misunderstanding sir and I prefer to do so in a civilized manner as opposed to being judgmental, condescending or sarcastic. I am as "blue collar" as it gets and I come from a very long line of "blue collar" people. Being "blue collar" means I work for my money and I actually care about what I spend it on hence my fair question. Because I am "blue collar" does not mean I have to correspond in that manner in an open forum and I'm respectfully not taking your sarcasm or anyone else's either. In all the time I've been in open forums I haven't had to defend myself or my choice of words. Clearly I am in the wrong place and will leave you gentlemen to your forum. I appreciate those who, despite scratching their heads at a rookie question, actually answered it without assigning judgement.
Blue collar factory for thirty years here and going back for generations. Some sites do have a lay-a-way, but for my larger expenditures, say a pipe ranging from $500-$1000, I set aside $2000/year for pipe and tobacco expenditures. Tobacco use of any form is never really cheap but even upper end stuff can be had by us wage slaves. I've seen first hand some of my commission pieces being made. How they can be sold under $400 would be beyond my comprehension. The skill alone to carve so intricately on something so small is worth the cost of admission.
I have to admit, I'm a bit perplexed at the response your post received. All you did was offer a suggestion that's been offered by many here many times before and has been generally appreciated when offered.
Getting the most out of a smoke is 75% technique and 25% equipment. Buying a high priced pipe is a waste for anyone who hasn't learned moisture levels, how to prep, how to pack, and cadence. And, the only way to really learn this is through doing it. Which is why it is generally suggested to anyone identifying him or her self as a new smoker, that they not spend money on a high end pipe. There are no other assumptions involved.
I think it was not as much the advice to make a purchase of a lesser priced pipe until those techniques and processes are learned and more of having your question regarded as "silly". One could say that an answer to the OP's question could be provided without deeming the man's question as silly. All questions, no matter how strange, silly, dumb, asked previously or otherwise can be answered in a way that doesn't make the OP feel embarrassed, dumb, silly, or otherwise. I mean I had the same questions when I started, just didn't ask them out of fear of ridicule. I never want someone to feel like my comments or answers make them feel anyway other than having their question answered. Just my observation and opinion, nothing more. Although I know a lot of guys are different and you can answer any question however you choose, it is a free country after all (mostly), and it is the risk you take by putting yourself out there to ask a question. Take that FWIW.
OK, so we have learned to not use the word "silly" when responding to a line of inquiry.
But It also may be that the OP has left the building.
But It also may be that the OP has left the building.
Yeah, on the reread, I see how that last sentence reads that way.
But I don't see economic class entering into it.
But I don't see economic class entering into it.
Coming from the lowest ranks of pipe smoking, I can see the OP questions are valid. Beginners always have questions and while some will ask, others will refrain and meander along learning the hobby at their own pace as I did. I really hate to see the OP leave slightly offended. As I’ve learned you cannot assume intent in a written response. But it happens with trigger words such as “silly” heck, even using the word “trigger” can be offensive these days. I do hope he comes back and realizes most of the people here have good intentions. I also think that topics being discussed can be a hot button issue for some, so it always brings with it varied opinions.
I love this forum!!
As I am still building a collection of pipes. Who is Ryan Alden and where do I see his pipes? I found a website but nothing is available.
As I am still building a collection of pipes. Who is Ryan Alden and where do I see his pipes? I found a website but nothing is available.
I've not seen too many of his pipes, but I know a few guys here that really like his pipes. Here's his website: http://www.aldenpipes.com
You can Google images of his pipes. Some really are quite beautiful.
You can Google images of his pipes. Some really are quite beautiful.
Here are some of my Ryan Alden pipes. If you go to his website and click on "Galleries" and then "previously sold" you'll see his work.
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