New Savinelli Tortuga - authentic or not?

[CapnJimbo]

Hello all and hope everyone stays safe and healthy. Just purchased a new Savinelli Tortuga 673 Rustic from a well-known vendor. Packaging seemed authentic, documentation, QC slip, filter insert, etc. So far, so good. But as I do I checked the markings against the great database: Here.

According to the database the all the Tortuga line should have what I consider the usual Savinelli "S" in a shield. Country of manufacture should be marked "ITALY". Mine has no S/shield, "Made in Italy". Otherwise the pipe and cover, and box all seem authentic and well-made, but I've had the bad experience of buying a counterfit Sav Roma.

Would owners of newish Tortugas please advise me if this pipe is authentic or not. Thank you very much...

 

[Chasing Embers]

The S shield is usually in this area. Probably lost in the rustication.

 

[workman]

You're OK. Here's my 602:

 

[workman]

Seems they stamp before they rusticate.

 

[RobNYC]

I bought a new Tortuga less than a month ago and yours looks like the real deal to me. Almost definite that the shield was lost in the rustication.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Seems they stamp before they rusticate.

I've seen some of their stamps blasted over including Punto Oros and Giubileo d'Oros or it could be that the stamps were too shallow to penetrate the textured finish.

 

[sasquatch]

Is there a big market in fake mid tier Savinellis? Cuz... that would surprise me.

 

[FurCoat]

I've seen some of their stamps blasted over including Punto Oros and Giubileo d'Oros or it could be that the stamps were too shallow to penetrate the textured finish.

^^This. I have this on some of mine.

 

[FurCoat]

You're good and the stamp on the stem is on point. Congrats on the pie. Tortugas are beautiful and the 673 is an exceptionally nice shape.

 

[Casual]

Is there a big market in fake mid tier Savinellis? Cuz... that would surprise me.

That guy who sneaks all the half finished stummels out of the Dunhill factory makes ‘em.

 

[Chasing Embers]

That guy who sneaks all the half finished stummels out of the Dunhill factory makes ‘em.

The biggest tell with those would be crooked drilling.

 

[woodsroad]

That guy who sneaks all the half finished stummels out of the Dunhill factory makes ‘em.

There’s actually a Dunhill factory? I thought that White Spot pipes were all made in the same mud hut village in China that makes Petersons.

 

[OzPiper]

@CapnJimbo

Welcome from Sydney, Oz

Forgive the nosy question - I used to lurk on a Rum Forum (but never signed up as a member) some years ago.
There was a CapnJimbo who was active there.
Same person ?

 

[mikethompson]

I didn't know there was a market for counterfeit pipes, but I'm sure there is.

As the experts have spoken, you have your answer.

 

[pipesandscotch]

I didn't know there was a market for counterfeit pipes, but I'm sure there is.

As the experts have spoken, you have your answer.

If there was, wouldn't surprise me with a high end pipe, but a $100 pipe? What's the point?

 

[CapnJimbo]

Thanks for all your replies. Let me be more specific - many collectors will be aware of the excellent pipe markings picture database that shows the authentic markings for thousands of pipes. Having once bought a counterfeit Roma, I now check everything I buy. Following is the authentic marking for a 673 Rustic for comparison.

First, of the 90 or so Sav pipes in the database, almost all of them have the "S"/shield marking. Additionally all but one of the 90 is stamped "ITALY" in all caps (not "made in Italy). My new 673 does NOT have the "S"/shield stamp on the bowl, and states "made in Italy".

So... for those of you who own a recent Tortuga 673 Rustic especially, or any other Tortuga Rustic, you don't need to post a pic, but please let me know if yours has the bowl stamped with the "S"/shield and "ITALY" (ALL CAPS). Much appreciated...
This is authentic from the database, and all ads.

And this is mine... no shield and "made in Italy" (unlike almost all true Savs):

 

[sasquatch]

Listen. There's no fake Savinelli Tortugas. Yours is real. It's as real as they get.

Why are there no fake Savinelli Tortugas? Because no on in their right mind would do it. Why would no one in their right mind do it? Because the pipe retails for 120 dollars. Which means it wholesales for about 70. You are talking about machining out a pipe with a very specific stem material and style, copying the filter system tenon, the shape, the finish, copying the stamps (but apparently only some of the stamps), and carefully carefully manufacturing a pipe that you could wholesale for 70 dollars. It isn't worth it. It's not even close to worth it. It doesn't happen, it never ever has happened, there's no fake mid grade pipes around. The people who manufacture mid grade pipes do it very efficiently and offer them at extremely reasonable prices. This is not where you go as a big pipe faker to make money. There's no reason to do it. There's reason NOT to do it. If you can make a pipe that nice, on your own, you can literally sell it for 250 dollars carving your own name on it.

Relax about your stamps. This isn't a Van Gogh someone discovered in an attic. We're not trying to authenticate anything here. That's a Savinelli Tortuga because it just obviously is one and there's no other kind.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Thanks for all your replies. Let me be more specific - many collectors will be aware of the excellent pipe markings picture database that shows the authentic markings for thousands of pipes. Having once bought a counterfeit Roma, I now check everything I buy. Following is the authentic marking for a 673 Rustic for comparison.

First, of the 90 or so Sav pipes in the database, almost all of them have the "S"/shield marking. Additionally all but one of the 90 is stamped "ITALY" in all caps (not "made in Italy). My new 673 does NOT have the "S"/shield stamp on the bowl, and states "made in Italy".

So... for those of you who own a recent Tortuga 673 Rustic especially, or any other Tortuga Rustic, you don't need to post a pic, but please let me know if yours has the bowl stamped with the "S"/shield and "ITALY" (ALL CAPS). Much appreciated...
View attachment 121872 This is authentic from the database, and all ads.

And this is mine... no shield and "made in Italy" (unlike almost all true Savs):

View attachment 121873

Many don't. When I was collecting their 904/914/9004/9005 shape, several of them were lacking a shield.

Sorry, old photo.

 

[Searock Fan]

If there was, wouldn't surprise me with a high end pipe, but a $100 pipe? What's the point?

I don't remember the details, but about 30 years ago there was a big scandal about a well known American dealer/collector who got caught making fake Dunhills. Seems there can be money in it.

 

[ArtSchoolMaintenance]

I don't remember the details, but about 30 years ago there was a big scandal about a well known American dealer/collector who got caught making fake Dunhills. Seems there can be money in it.

Ah yes, the Dunhills. It's the prime case of "fell off the truck."

Honestly, with all the talk of fakes and counterfeits anymore, I'm seriously considering putting a reward out for anyone who can provide documented proof of a major manufacturer saying "yep, this is fake, definitely not one of ours."