New Barling's

[doctorbob]

Neverbend, I would describe my pipe as a pencil shanked, small billiard too. I think the different stem styles make them look further apart in shape than they may actually be. I'll try to get some measurements for apples to apples comparison.

 

[doctorbob]

The stummel is 3" even in length, the shank is 1/2" in diameter, and slightly more than 1-3/4" tall.

 

[sablebrush52]

Morning Jesse,
If the pic shows, it's a 1372 (R), no size, pencil shank, small bowl billiard, clearly not the same shape as DoctorBob's. Saw the same as mine, #1372, better condition, on eBay a few months back.
I remember other instances of same #, different shape (apples comes to mind) but I don't remember the specifics.
How common do you find that this happened?

Hi Pete,
Not common at all. The 1372 was a Billiard Chubby with a saddle bit. I've checked out my 150th Anniversary Catalog, where it appears with the new model number of 4219. I went through the Diversity Machine Works letter to US Barling dealers from September 1962, wherein all of the available Barling models are listed with the old Barling numbers, the Nichols numbers and the New Barling numbers in columns side by side, and find no mention of a 1372 R. So I have no explanation for the pipe that you posted.
Some pipes from the 1920's had an "R" hand cut into the side, a carvers' mark. This pipe is clearly later than that. There were also some pipes that a collector had stamped with an "R". And some early quaints have either an "R" or "L" hand carved next to the stampings, also carvers' marks.
I wish that the picture was better. I can barely make out the model stamp. The stem looks like a replacement as it doesn't fit correctly.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Good chance, need the overcast sky to clear for better lighting. My camera skills are abysmal.

Actually overcast skies are great for still lifes or other static photos.... But my real reason for posting is to ask: Are you the Dr. Bob at the WCPS- who hails from VT?

 

[neverbend]

Hi Jesse,
Sorry for the bad picture, I have problems posting graphics. I'll see if I can post better ones.
I agree that it's a later pipe, post WW-II. The "R" is large and carved, not stamped, near the bowl and I think it signifies 'replacement', similar to the 'X' on Charatans. May be the case with the older 'R'.
Stem is original and well made. Pipe was hard used and buffed at the join so the briar is a little diminished. Fits close to correct either side.
The other 1372 that I saw (on eBay) was beautifully rendered. Like mine but a bit longer with a taper that started at the shoulder and continued all the way to the button. Very elegant.
Most of the 1372s that I've seen were like DoctorBobs lovely find. On mine, I thought that the seller had mixed up the nomenclature with another pipe but there it was.
Pete

 

[dmcmtk]

Because the subject came up...a 1962 4219 that sold on ebay over the weekend.

 

[doctorbob]

Jpmcwjr- I'm a different guy. Love Vermont, but I'm from the Midwest.
Bob

 

[ssjones]

Smart grab on that 4219!

 

[aldecaker]

I'm glad this thread came back around. When it first popped up, I was less than kind about my new-production Barling. That was unfair; I didn't give it enough of a chance to pass judgement on it. I put it back in the rotation after this thread came up, and frankly it has been improving with every smoke, just like any other good quality, brand new pipe should. I believe I made the mistake of judging every aspect of the pipe by its poorly-applied gloss coat. I removed it with 91% IPA, so that problem is solved. I just wanted to clear the air and give credit where credit is due, which I did not do before.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Do you have before and after pix by chance?

 

[aldecaker]

Sorry, I do not. I've been meaning to grab my wife's digital camera and figure out how to post pics, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[sablebrush52]

I agree that it's a later pipe, post WW-II. The "R" is large and carved, not stamped, near the bowl and I think it signifies 'replacement', similar to the 'X' on Charatans. May be the case with the older 'R'.
Stem is original and well made. Pipe was hard used and buffed at the join so the briar is a little diminished. Fits close to correct either side.
The other 1372 that I saw (on eBay) was beautifully rendered. Like mine but a bit longer with a taper that started at the shoulder and continued all the way to the button. Very elegant.
Most of the 1372s that I've seen were like DoctorBobs lovely find. On mine, I thought that the seller had mixed up the nomenclature with another pipe but there it was.

There have also been a number of pipes, Barlings, Sasienis and Dunhills, that have shown up on eBay with the same "R" carved into them, which suggests someone's collection has been sold off. I'd buy that one over carving an "R" into a pipe to indicate a replacement stem. That's a bit extreme.
The other possibility is that someone used the wrong stamp in the factory, though that seems a bit of a stretch. But there's the anomalous shape with that stamp. So, someone screwed up.

 

[neverbend]

I'd buy that one over carving an "R" into a pipe to indicate a replacement stem

Hi Jesse,
Sorry, I wasn't specific.
"R" = Replacement PIPE, (not stem)
Only an idiot would etch an ugly "R" onto all of their pipes. OK, there are some idiots out there .
Warranty replacement or gift pipes were often (usually) marked. Barling, Charatan, Dunhill and others did this. I wrote more on this topic in "Sell Me A Dunhill" thread.
I'd imagine that Sasieni had marks. I know that GBD marked gifted pipes, so I'd assume that Comoy did too.
Either as replacement or gift, the marks (sometimes as direct as "Not For Sale") indicated that there was no further warranty. The gifts were intended to be hanging from the mouth of retailers to promote the brand and not just added to inventory.
I have a gifted (1982) Il Ceppo marked "For Friends" (in English). Jacopo gifted me a grand Gem series with a silver/gold/silver band that's engraved with my name and "4-5-1983", easily the most elegant way of insuring that it was used by me and not sold. Of course I still have it.

 

[neverbend]

@DoctorBob,
Our pipes are significantly different. Your bowl is thicker and is a saddle stem.
Mine is thinner, smaller bowl with a long taper stem.
@Dmcmtk,
Did you purchase the Barling #4219 or just see it? Do you know what it went for?
Barling's Make arched pipes are immediate post-Family Era and about the same quality as their predecessors, handmade bowl and stem. The plumping of the bowl was impossible with machines of that time. If you bought it, congrats and enjoy.
@Aldercaker,
Glad to hear how well your Barling smokes!

 

[georged]

Warranty replacement or gift pipes were often (usually) marked. Barling, Charatan, Dunhill and others did this. I wrote more on this topic in "Sell Me A Dunhill" thread.

For those interested, this is Dunhill's "Gift" stamping. Commonly known among collectors as a "C pipe". (It stands for "complimentary" according to the Music City Marketing people who gave it to me. Makes sense)

 

[sablebrush52]

Warranty replacement or gift pipes were often (usually) marked. Barling, Charatan, Dunhill and others did this. I wrote more on this topic in "Sell Me A Dunhill" thread.

Possibly. But did you not describe the "R" as hand etched, rather than stamped? I've seen the markings on Charatans, who also used a stamp that looked like an open flower to obliterate the original stamping. I have one such, an "After Hours", where the original Charatan Belvedere stamp was obliterated. I've also seen that on other Charatans. Wouldn't Barling have used a stamp rather than carving an "R"? And if this was a regular practice, wouldn't these show up? I haven't seen such a stamp on any Barlings so far. And the hand cut "R" appears on quaints only, except for those "R"'s which were cut into the shanks of a variety of pipes by a collector with impeccable taste, deep pockets, and no evident concern for resale. As for gift pipes, such as the Benjamins, mine bear no odd stamps.
So while it's possible that it means replacement, It's also possible that it doesn't. And since the model stamp appears to be incorrect, the whole thing could be a one time bollocks. It certainly is one of those interesting mysteries.

 

[neverbend]

For those interested, this is Dunhill's "Gift" stamping. Commonly known among collectors as a "C pipe". (It stands for "complimentary" according to the Music City Marketing people who gave it to me. Makes sense)

Thanks for the post George.
At the Dunhill World Pipe Conferences in 1980 and 1982, the attendees were given pipes with similar markings. I don't remember the "C" but it might have been there.

 

[ssjones]

At the Dunhill World Pipe Conferences in 1980 and 1982, the attendees were given pipes with similar markings. I don't remember the "C" but it might have been there.

I didn't know that Dunhill had "World Pipe Conferences", amazing.

 

[neverbend]

Hi Jesse,
Collectors rely on nomenclature and want to believe that the markings were carefully attended to. With all good intentions that wasn't always the case. Dunhill was the most consistent (in my experience) but I know from my companies that screw-ups happened. Markings were omitted, incorrect grades used, stamps applied at angles, etc. and shape numbers could add to the problems. Manufacturers just weren’t as meticulous as collectors expect that they were.
As I mentioned, I saw another #1372, same shape as my little, taper, pencil shank, on eBay. It was better executed and in superior condition and no "R". I've seen the same "R" as mine on a few Barlings in the early 1980s. (I believe) Phil Bennett told me that it meant "replacement', and that rang true because they (mine included) were small and ordinary pipes, typical of what companies used for this purpose. I'll try to post better pictures. The "R" isn't pretty, nor is it meant to be. Mine looks etched but might be a stamp. Your description of Charatan replacement marks is consistent with making the pipe unsaleable.
I took a Bruyere to the offices of Dunhill USA (NYC), for exchange. I was shown a tray of small, sad looking Shells but I insisted on a Bruyere. Then they wanted to mark it as a replacement (office staff did the marking) but it didn't happen and I don't know what mark they would have used. Pipes sent to London probably had a different stamp.
Stamps were used until no longer functional and then replaced. Most of the time you tried to duplicate the stamp but it might be with another tool shop who used different fonts (for example). Too much literal meaning is infused with nomenclature, it's the best that we have but it can't always be relied upon.

 

[buroak]

And a couple of hallmarked pieces have turned up with size stamps that date as early as 1925.

So a Barling with an EXEL stamping might also have an original stem with the "Regd Design" stamp?

There have also been a number of pipes, Barlings, Sasienis and Dunhills, that have shown up on eBay with the same "R" carved into them, which suggests someone's collection has been sold off.

I have one of these, a Barling in my case. Colwright sold several non-Barling pipes with the same "R".