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ofafeather

Lifer
Apr 26, 2020
3,034
9,493
52
Where NY, CT & MA meet
The Dunhill My Mixtures 965, EMP and NC sold bulk in the US back then were made by Lane Ltd.
I thought that Lane was involved but my memory was foggy. Thanks for confirming.
The bulk A—,—— Mixtures sold in tins at the Dunhill shops were all relabeled Lane Bulk mixtures.
Were the blends in the London shop also Lane? I don’t recall them matching descriptions of familiar Lane blends. Alfred’s Own, Baby’s Bottom and there was a heavy Lat blend with an A number I can’t recall.
 

damacene

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jul 31, 2022
267
1,260
Los Angeles, CA
As a Dunhill fanboy and big fan of 965 I think the Dunhill version was better, because I like the Dunhill brand better than Peterson and the Dunhill script looked cooler than the Peterson. The tobacco itself isn't different at all if you're referring to the STG product. According to GL Pease, 965 went downhill after it went from Dunhill produced to Murray's, so it was already in a degenerated form before I was even born. I've had a very old sample of the Murray's and to me it was in the same ballpark as the STG version. Both tasted like MM 965. I think the brown Virginia Cavendish is really makes the blend so spectacular.
 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,608
13,433
Absolutely. Lot of outdated knowledge and bullshit flying around the forums. Leaf has never been more readily available, with the amount of varietals, selection, nicotine/sugar varieties, grades etc than ever before ...
I'm curious, as an industry insider, if you can lend any insight into the reports from tobacco trade sources that suggest that there is in fact a leaf shortage, contrary to what you're stating. Also, don't be shy about providing links to primary industry sources and data to back up your claims. A lot of stuff flying around out there.

"The production of tobacco leaf is going down, having decreased by approximately 4% per year between 2013 and 2017." Phillip-Morris International
"Due in large part to global tobacco control measures, global demand for tobacco leaf and cigarette consumption have been steadily decreasing for nearly a decade. Though use of other non-combustible tobacco-derived products like electronic cigarettes and heated tobacco products are increasing in popularity in some countries, they use far less leaf, with some products now using synthetic nicotine. This decline is mirrored in data on tobacco-leaf production, which peaked in 2013 (Figure 1), suggesting that a reduction in demand leads to a reduction in supply." World Bank - Global Tax Program
"Global tobacco leaf production showed an increasing trend between 2005 and 2015. However, production declined by 7.6% overall in the last two decades." World Health Organization
"When push comes to shove in the current shortage, where manufacturers struggle to get their desperately needed raw materials, it sometimes is the smaller suppliers that can provide stocks." Tobacco Asia 2023
"Buyers have been paying record prices to secure their shares of Brazil’s smaller-than-expected tobacco crop.....The combination of low volume and high quality, along with a persisting post-Covid-19 tobacco shortage at the global level, sparked a scramble among tobacco companies in Brazil to secure their requirements." Tobacco Reporter 2024
"Tobacco remains a scarce commodity. Universal Leaf estimates world leaf production, excluding China, at 4.66 billion green kg in 2023, down from 4.86 billion kg in 2022. This year, the merchant expects global production to rise to 5.2 billion kg, but there are issues that might alter this forecast. .... The undersupply of leaf tobacco remains the key global trend,” says Ivan Genov, manager of tobacco industry analysis at the International Tobacco Growers’ Association (ITGA). “Leading tobacco purchasing companies continue to report very low levels of uncommitted stock. In general, sales go very fast. In Brazil, the flue-cured Virginia (FCV) crop was almost completely sold by the end of April, which is unusual (see “The Great Scramble,” Tobacco Reporter, May 2024). In Zimbabwe, export figures from early May are up significantly from last year. Burley is also in short supply." Tobacco Reporter 2024
 

eyjaygaming

Might Stick Around
Nov 29, 2022
71
461
Germany/Denmark
www.instagram.com
I'm curious, as an industry insider, if you can lend any insight into the reports from tobacco trade sources that suggest that there is in fact a leaf shortage, contrary to what you're stating. Also, don't be shy about providing links to primary industry sources and data to back up your claims. A lot of stuff flying around out there.

"The production of tobacco leaf is going down, having decreased by approximately 4% per year between 2013 and 2017." Phillip-Morris International
"Due in large part to global tobacco control measures, global demand for tobacco leaf and cigarette consumption have been steadily decreasing for nearly a decade. Though use of other non-combustible tobacco-derived products like electronic cigarettes and heated tobacco products are increasing in popularity in some countries, they use far less leaf, with some products now using synthetic nicotine. This decline is mirrored in data on tobacco-leaf production, which peaked in 2013 (Figure 1), suggesting that a reduction in demand leads to a reduction in supply." World Bank - Global Tax Program
"Global tobacco leaf production showed an increasing trend between 2005 and 2015. However, production declined by 7.6% overall in the last two decades." World Health Organization
"When push comes to shove in the current shortage, where manufacturers struggle to get their desperately needed raw materials, it sometimes is the smaller suppliers that can provide stocks." Tobacco Asia 2023
"Buyers have been paying record prices to secure their shares of Brazil’s smaller-than-expected tobacco crop.....The combination of low volume and high quality, along with a persisting post-Covid-19 tobacco shortage at the global level, sparked a scramble among tobacco companies in Brazil to secure their requirements." Tobacco Reporter 2024
"Tobacco remains a scarce commodity. Universal Leaf estimates world leaf production, excluding China, at 4.66 billion green kg in 2023, down from 4.86 billion kg in 2022. This year, the merchant expects global production to rise to 5.2 billion kg, but there are issues that might alter this forecast. .... The undersupply of leaf tobacco remains the key global trend,” says Ivan Genov, manager of tobacco industry analysis at the International Tobacco Growers’ Association (ITGA). “Leading tobacco purchasing companies continue to report very low levels of uncommitted stock. In general, sales go very fast. In Brazil, the flue-cured Virginia (FCV) crop was almost completely sold by the end of April, which is unusual (see “The Great Scramble,” Tobacco Reporter, May 2024). In Zimbabwe, export figures from early May are up significantly from last year. Burley is also in short supply." Tobacco Reporter 2024
Hey, thanks for reaching out.
As I was only concerned with pipe tobacco at Mac Baren as the Category Manager - not other categories, such as cigarettes or such. Meaning all I wrote is in regards to pipe tobacco - and also only my point of view, meaning from 1. a larger pipe tobacco producer, 2. with primary equipment, able to cut and process their own leaf. Also by keeping in touch with our leaf purchaser.

We had been in an informal partnership with STG for many years aquiring raw leaf (difficult to say, but maybe somewhere around 60-75 % of raw leaf for producing pipe tobacco globally). Meaning that, while prices are skyrocketing (think of the monsoons in Brazil 2 years ago, where prices surged 25%+) and availability is surely becoming an issue for the cigarette industry, but it was not noticable for pipe.

Pipe tobacco is not even a drop in a bucket compared to cigarette. Just a small mental exercise: the two largest markets for pipe tobacco at the moment are the USA and Germany, which roughly 1-2 years ago averaged 1,400 tons of pipe tobacco production. Compared to cigarette with 6,480,000 tons (worldwide). Not a 100 % fair comparison, but you know what I'm getting at.

The "industry" is so small that there really aren't any primary sources on anything when it comes to tobacco purchasing for pipe tobacco production, I had been looking for years. The main suppliers are Alliance One and especially Universal Corporation and smaller suppliers like ASTAB Cramer for Orientals and Latakia.

Stories will vary, especially with boutique blenders - and its even harder if they don't have primary equipment, or flake presses etc. Some suppliers have minimum order quantities which smaller producers can't keep up with... that's why UST didn't supply Mike McNeil / McClelland anymore and they shut down, not wanting to go through the hassle of reblending his tobaccos with different raw leaf... they were just too small.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and I'm eager to see what the future brings. We got the encouraging news that Peter Dalhoff has moved up at STG... if you haven't heard of him, he's imho the most important man in pipe tobacco now, as the head purhaser for raw leaf for STG, working with Franz Pedersen, Mac Baren's former raw leaf purchaser for over 30 years - they're a powerhouse.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
4,515
13,313
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
Hey, thanks for reaching out.
As I was only concerned with pipe tobacco at Mac Baren as the Category Manager - not other categories, such as cigarettes or such. Meaning all I wrote is in regards to pipe tobacco - and also only my point of view, meaning from 1. a larger pipe tobacco producer, 2. with primary equipment, able to cut and process their own leaf. Also by keeping in touch with our leaf purchaser.

We had been in an informal partnership with STG for many years aquiring raw leaf (difficult to say, but maybe somewhere around 60-75 % of raw leaf for producing pipe tobacco globally). Meaning that, while prices are skyrocketing (think of the monsoons in Brazil 2 years ago, where prices surged 25%+) and availability is surely becoming an issue for the cigarette industry, but it was not noticable for pipe.

Pipe tobacco is not even a drop in a bucket compared to cigarette. Just a small mental exercise: the two largest markets for pipe tobacco at the moment are the USA and Germany, which roughly 1-2 years ago averaged 1,400 tons of pipe tobacco production. Compared to cigarette with 6,480,000 tons (worldwide). Not a 100 % fair comparison, but you know what I'm getting at.

The "industry" is so small that there really aren't any primary sources on anything when it comes to tobacco purchasing for pipe tobacco production, I had been looking for years. The main suppliers are Alliance One and especially Universal Corporation and smaller suppliers like ASTAB Cramer for Orientals and Latakia.

Stories will vary, especially with boutique blenders - and its even harder if they don't have primary equipment, or flake presses etc. Some suppliers have minimum order quantities which smaller producers can't keep up with... that's why UST didn't supply Mike McNeil / McClelland anymore and they shut down, not wanting to go through the hassle of reblending his tobaccos with different raw leaf... they were just too small.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and I'm eager to see what the future brings. We got the encouraging news that Peter Dalhoff has moved up at STG... if you haven't heard of him, he's imho the most important man in pipe tobacco now, as the head purhaser for raw leaf for STG, working with Franz Pedersen, Mac Baren's former raw leaf purchaser for over 30 years - they're a powerhouse.
It's always a pleasure to read your posts. Are you still in the industry (I hope)?
 
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eyjaygaming

Might Stick Around
Nov 29, 2022
71
461
Germany/Denmark
www.instagram.com
It's always a pleasure to read your posts. Are you still in the industry (I hope)?
Thanks! Currently I work for Kopp Tobaccos (think Robert McConnell, Rattrays, HU Tobacco, Savinelli Tobacco, Wessex, Sillems, Peter Heinrichs etc.), but I will be leaving the pipe tobacco industry at end of the month. I hope to stay active on socials (shameless plug, my instagram: theeyjay) and on forums every now and then. For the forums it will be good being a private person again, as people in the industry absolutely get shit on mostly 😅
 

nick24601

Might Stick Around
Jan 19, 2020
65
366
Hey, thanks for reaching out.
As I was only concerned with pipe tobacco at Mac Baren as the Category Manager - not other categories, such as cigarettes or such. Meaning all I wrote is in regards to pipe tobacco - and also only my point of view, meaning from 1. a larger pipe tobacco producer, 2. with primary equipment, able to cut and process their own leaf. Also by keeping in touch with our leaf purchaser.

We had been in an informal partnership with STG for many years aquiring raw leaf (difficult to say, but maybe somewhere around 60-75 % of raw leaf for producing pipe tobacco globally). Meaning that, while prices are skyrocketing (think of the monsoons in Brazil 2 years ago, where prices surged 25%+) and availability is surely becoming an issue for the cigarette industry, but it was not noticable for pipe.

Pipe tobacco is not even a drop in a bucket compared to cigarette. Just a small mental exercise: the two largest markets for pipe tobacco at the moment are the USA and Germany, which roughly 1-2 years ago averaged 1,400 tons of pipe tobacco production. Compared to cigarette with 6,480,000 tons (worldwide). Not a 100 % fair comparison, but you know what I'm getting at.

The "industry" is so small that there really aren't any primary sources on anything when it comes to tobacco purchasing for pipe tobacco production, I had been looking for years. The main suppliers are Alliance One and especially Universal Corporation and smaller suppliers like ASTAB Cramer for Orientals and Latakia.

Stories will vary, especially with boutique blenders - and its even harder if they don't have primary equipment, or flake presses etc. Some suppliers have minimum order quantities which smaller producers can't keep up with... that's why UST didn't supply Mike McNeil / McClelland anymore and they shut down, not wanting to go through the hassle of reblending his tobaccos with different raw leaf... they were just too small.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and I'm eager to see what the future brings. We got the encouraging news that Peter Dalhoff has moved up at STG... if you haven't heard of him, he's imho the most important man in pipe tobacco now, as the head purhaser for raw leaf for STG, working with Franz Pedersen, Mac Baren's former raw leaf purchaser for over 30 years - they're a powerhouse.

HEY! Positive comments about STG are not allowed here
 

jpberg

Lifer
Aug 30, 2011
3,606
9,124
Absolutely. Lot of outdated knowledge and bullshit flying around the forums. Leaf has never been more readily available, with the amount of varietals, selection, nicotine/sugar varieties, grades etc than ever before (if you're able to afford and process it, which only a few do, like STG, DTM and Gawith... C&D gets their leaf pre-processed/cut/cased by Alliance One, as they don't own their own primary). But yeah, the main difference to old blends will surely been Tonka/Coumarin, which was sprayed over almost all processed pipe tobacco back in the day to make it taste better and hide poor grades.
So that’s why McC shut down. Too much good tobacco available.