More Bad News for Canadians

[georged]

Cannabis has never killed anyone, ever.

I wonder how many hard drug users started down that road because of it, though, and THEN died?

Around 100,000 per year. (some years a little more, some a little less)

And those who never went any farther? Lots of fucked-uppedness there, too:

What are marijuana's long-term effects on the brain? | National Institute on Drug Abuse - https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

 

[LeafErikson]

I realize moaning and groaning about reality is commonplace, misery loves company and all that. All complaining does is rile the insides. Well, you may feel a bit better after an emotional release/rant but, that's it. Nothing has changed. Nor will it.

Many more people see these posts than just those active on the forum. Bringing light to an issue he would like to see changed could end up being seen by thousands of people’s eyes. What if those thousand people each tell a few friends? I don’t think the OP was merely complaining, but was raising an issue he had.

There is more power in dialogue than there is in resigning yourself to a reality you can’t abide.

 

[warren]

There is more power in dialogue than there is in resigning yourself to a reality you can’t abide.

Ranting/complaining/groaning to a small, narrowly focused, international audience isn't gonna change much in Canada. Becoming active politically may. Organizing some voters, growing your base will have even more power for change. Then getting out the vote will matter. Doing so requires real commitment and an awful lot of energy and moneys. Anyone up North willing to take that on for a tinyl slice of society? Thought not.

 

[JSPiper71]

The responses here are hilarious. Last I checked, this is a category to discuss and inform about on-going tobacco legislation that day by day encroaches on the freedom of adults to make decisions for ourselves, by governments that impose incoherent and irrational policies. If you don't want to discuss this serious issue, then head over to the ’What are you smoking in December’ category and keep your ‘much to do about nothing’ comments to your self. The entire category was created for this exact reason.

 

[Singed]

I guess without a vested national interest it's a moot point.

 

[JSPiper71]

I guess without a vested national interest it's a moot point.

Moderators, I suggest we shut down this category as the masses seem to feel that tobacco legislation is a moot point in a forum about pipe smoking.

 

[Singed]

I'm sorry you can't seem to see that I side with you on this issue.

Why would you expect sympathy from a largely American populated site?

Good exposition requires an understanding of your audience.

 

[brian64]

Why would you expect sympathy from a largely American populated site?

It's worth pointing out that at least two of the "much ado about nothing" commenters in this thread are Canadian.

 

[LeafErikson]

Ranting/complaining/groaning to a small, narrowly focused, international audience isn't gonna change much in Canada.

While the number of people that actively post on this forum is small, the number of people that view our posts certainly is not. Who knows how many people view the things we post without actually being members through a simple google search? I’d wager it’s in the thousands for some posts and the tens of thousands for other posts. I think you’re being a bit myopic in your views on internet discourse. There have literally been revolutions in countries that have been propelled, in no small part, by movements that began on the internet. I don’t think that highlighting potential legislation should be so flippantly disregarded as ranting, complaining, or groaning, but I welcome your ability to do so just as much as I appreciate my ability to rebuke your criticisms.

 

[sardonicus87]

All I know is that Canada is a worse off place now that Letterkenny has aired its final season. But at least it gave you a potential rally song:

 

[woodsroad]

Prohibition never ends the use of vice commodities, it only forces them underground ultimately leading to government retractions and backpedalling. Don't sweat it until it actually happens and make your voice heard.

As addictive as tobacco and alcohol may be the government is more addicted to the tax revenue.

I’ve heard the “but they need the tax money” argument many times before, and it doesn’t hold water. This is about popular opinion. As Warren said, your fellow countrymen have voted for this, and the number one thing politicians fight for, above all else, is reelection. Tax money can come from so many other places. Beside which, I mean, damn…what are tobacco taxes in Canuckville now? As usage decreases, the tax rate increases, reaching equilibrium.

As Pogo once opined “We have met the enemy, and they is us”.

 

[woodsroad]

Correct. Tobacco is bad.
In fact, tobacco is deadly and kills shitloads of people every single year.
Cannabis has never killed anyone, ever.

Nardwuar is a national treasure.
The “Human Serviette”!

I wonder how many hard drug users started down that road because of it, though, and THEN died?

Around 100,000 per year. (some years a little more, some a little less)

And those who never went any farther? Lots of fucked-uppedness there, too:

What are marijuana's long-term effects on the brain? | National Institute on Drug Abuse - https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

There is plenty of research to support what @georged is saying. Recent research also documents increased suicide rates among teen pot users, and a large spike in pot-induced traffic fatalities.

You have to be stoned not to realize that.

 

[fireground_piper]

I’ve heard the “but they need the tax money” argument many times before, and it doesn’t hold water. This is about popular opinion. As Warren said, your fellow countrymen have voted for this, and the number one thing politicians fight for, above all else, is reelection. Tax money can come from so many other places. Beside which, I mean, damn…what are tobacco taxes in Canuckville now? As usage decreases, the tax rate increases, reaching equilibrium.

As Pogo once opined “We have met the enemy, and they is us”.

I’d argue there’s certainly a legitimate tax discussion. It would seem Canada brought in over $7 billion specifically on tobacco taxes for the 2021-2022 year.

 

[Singed]

I’ve heard the “but they need the tax money” argument many times before, and it doesn’t hold water. This is about popular opinion. As Warren said, your fellow countrymen have voted for this, and the number one thing politicians fight for, above all else, is reelection. Tax money can come from so many other places. Beside which, I mean, damn…what are tobacco taxes in Canuckville now? As usage decreases, the tax rate increases, reaching equilibrium.

As Pogo once opined “We have met the enemy, and they is us”.

Do you have anything valid to add to the discussion or do you just want to throw around denigrating national slurs? The "serves you right" attitude is trite and exhausted.

You're only here to spout vapid comments, find a bowling league.

 

[fireground_piper]

Assuming the numbers are accurate, for 2021-2022:

Canada, in total, generated $7.13 billion specifically in tobacco excise taxes. Of that, $3.18 billion was federal and $3.95 billion was provincial.

Canadian federal total tax revenue for 2021-2022 was $413.3 billion which means tobacco excise tax alone accounts for almost .8% of the country's total tax revenue for the year. They are also operating at a $90 billion deficit for the same year.

I'm not going to go pulling up individual provincial budgets, but it's a fair statement to say in total, it's not an insignificant amount of money and not an insignificant percentage of total revenue for a single, special tax to simply blow off. Especially when you want money for spending.

References:

https://smoke-free.ca/SUAP/2020/Taxrevenues%20per%20smoker.pdf

Archived - Annual Financial Report of the Government of Canada Fiscal Year 2021-2022 - Canada.ca

Annual Financial Report of the Government of Canada Fiscal Year 2021-2022

www.canada.ca

 

[jpberg]

Two pages into a Canadian thread and no apologies yet?

 

[Steddy]

We would do well to understand the difference between venting and “bitching and moaning”. It sure seems to me the OP was venting, which can be a healthy release.

Why be bothered by the fact that pipe smokers are posting about legislation under a legislation thread on a pipesmoker’s forum?

 

[Winnipeger]

I wonder how many hard drug users started down that road because of it, though, and THEN died?

Around 100,000 per year. (some years a little more, some a little less)

Yep. Also, did you know that over 87% of heroin addicts ate Cheerios as a kid. True fact. Definitely best not to "start down that road".

 

[geoffs]

It's worth pointing out that at least two of the "much ado about nothing" commenters in this thread are Canadian.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[sablebrush52]

I wonder how many hard drug users started down that road because of it, though, and THEN died?

The "gateway drug" argument has been made and debunked so many times over the past 80 years that it's a wonder that anyone bothers any longer.

And what's cannabis got to do with anything anyway? Cannabis VS Tobacco is a classic "apples and oranges" proposition and all of these comparisons and assumptions are at best meritless and at worst just plain dishonest.

The change in cannabis's status is best described as a recognition that prohibition is a failing strategy, one that often results in fabulously rewarding criminals. Same as alcohol.

If you guys love criminal cartels and want to see them continue making trillions then by all means continue whining about legalization and continue supporting prohibition.

On the other hand, there is a method that does work quite well over time, death by a thousand cuts, marginalization both socially and economically, which is what's been happening to tobacco, rightfully the topic of this thread.

Cannabis will get the same "death by a thousand cuts" treatment as a widespread body of research is unleashed to make is less glamorous and cool. Just legalizing it takes away all of the enticing"forbidden fruit" aspects of using it.

Regarding all of the talk about tobacco's importance as a revenue base, has anyone compared that to its estimated economic costs? "cause last time I looked at those figures, tobacco tax income was piss compared to its estimated costs in terms of worker productivity, and health costs.

Tobacco is a self destructive vice, one that I really enjoy. Why pretend that it's anything else. Warren's point that this sort of policy is what the voters supported is valid, or you would have a different outcome. And Warren's point that politicians care only about getting re-elected is also true. People wrap themselves around axles over politicians and parties that don't really give a tinker's damn about them.