Men Without Chests

[Perique]

it’s taken six pages of resistance for me to comment on this thread. And I’m going to attempt to hold out for the next six.

 

[workman]

I don't think any of the strong men in my life... and I was raised by a father who adopted me... and a whole host of uncles, big strong Christian Southern men, none of them every "told" me what it was to be a man.

I had a Grandfather who would set me down in my confusion and he would tell me a story about his experience... an allegory, so to speak. And, it was up to me to connect the dots.

I would watch his brother, my uncle, walk up to a group of men harassing a minority, and I watched him de-escalate a situation. He knew...

I've seen acts of stregnth, charity, compassion, love.
This is how I learned to be a man.
No one told me you gotta... you needta... you shoulda...

And, I never got reprimanded directly, I was made to look at my actions, and sometimes in my realization, I gotta spanking, sometimes I didn't need to, because of shame, humiliation... They knew...

If you don't put humility, compassion above valor and stregnth, and if love isn't above all of that... what the hell is valor and stregnth about? Valor without love can easily become evil.

It's really hard to talk about these sorts of things. And, to make another man feel less is the epitome of what a man should not... but damned my own eyes for saying it. I don't know... sometimes.

This is really hard... I wish my Uncles still walked among us. They knew... Christ knew... Plato knew... I just wish I knew better how to convey these things.

The short story is by William Somerset Maugham. My memory...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The short story is by William Somerset Maugham. My memory...

Thank you, I'm running it down now. I love a good story.

 

[olkofri]

I don't think any of the strong men in my life... and I was raised by a father who adopted me... and a whole host of uncles, big strong Christian Southern men, none of them every "told" me what it was to be a man.

I had a Grandfather who would set me down in my confusion and he would tell me a story about his experience... an allegory, so to speak. And, it was up to me to connect the dots.

I would watch his brother, my uncle, walk up to a group of men harassing a minority, and I watched him de-escalate a situation. He knew...

I've seen acts of stregnth, charity, compassion, love.
This is how I learned to be a man.
No one told me you gotta... you needta... you shoulda...

And, I never got reprimanded directly, I was made to look at my actions, and sometimes in my realization, I gotta spanking, sometimes I didn't need to, because of shame, humiliation... They knew...

If you don't put humility, compassion above valor and stregnth, and if love isn't above all of that... what the hell is valor and stregnth about? Valor without love can easily become evil.

It's really hard to talk about these sorts of things. And, to make another man feel less is the epitome of what a man should not... but damned my own eyes for saying it. I don't know... sometimes.

This is really hard... I wish my Uncles still walked among us. They knew... Christ knew... Plato knew... I just wish I knew better how to convey these things.

Hear, hear!

My elders also did it passively. Yeah, I did get the occasional lecture and instruction time on what is manly, but mostly, the manly virtues were passed on through deed as much as through word. My elders did practice what they 'preached'.

I did get reprimanded, and I did get the stick many a time. God bless them for that. I've a headstrong temperament and without strong correction I'd be now in jail, or dead. Again, God bless them for being strong when they needed to be.

I also got the notions of what a man should not be: i.e. the 'macho man', always ready to beat someone up, prone and proud to get drunk, the cantankerous one, the one presuming his dick is 20+ cm long, the womaniser... that's no man, but an animal.

 

[workman]

Erm, I think your viking ancestors woulda sided with me on this!

Just teasing you man.

I think you're right about that.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I understood what you meant. It's difficult to have a meaningful discussion on a forum like this. I think I disagree with you, but I'm really not sure. It depends on how you define weak and who.
I'm not asking you to do it, unless you want to please warren and embers, we don't have to agree on this.

There was once a definition of strong that was understood across the globe, and through many cultures. A strong man was considered good, these men built great civilizations.. by handling their responsibilities, raising their families, protecting the physically weak around him, and standing up for what is right. This was passed down through strong men for generations.

The weak man finds a way out.. He neglects these responsibilities, and the people around him suffer.

That's not a political concept.

 

[workman]

A member of a baseball team known as the Dodgers, once upon a time known as those "Brooklyn Bums" before they decamped to Los Angeles.

Sometimes I struggle to understand the relevance of some posts.

 

[brian64]

More bullshit. Take it all in and analyze.

Thank you once again Sable...my "bullshit" was just my misinterpretation of your post (I'm kind of slow sometimes). I believe I understand now, and "take it all in and analyze" is exactly what I endeavor to do each day.

Unfortunately it still does not result in agreement on many things...but I'm used to that.

 

[workman]

There was once a definition of strong that was understood across the globe, and through many cultures. A strong man was considered good, these men built great civilizations.. by handling their responsibilities, raising their families, protecting the physically weak around him, and standing up for what is right. This was passed down through strong men for generations.

The weak man finds a way out.. He neglects these responsibilities, and the people around him suffer.

That's not a political concept.

That is not correct. Historically, strong people have taken advantage of weaker people. Only in the very recent history of mankind have some societies evolved to function without slavery, looting of neighbours and such.
If we choose to interpret mr. Lewis' words in that manner, that we must try to be better than we are naturally inclined, they might be ok.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't know much about baseball. And, I defintely know less about it

That is not correct. Historically, strong people have taken advantage of weaker people. Only in the very recent history of mankind have some societies evolved to function without slavery, looting of neighbours and such.

Funny, when we Americans talk about "a long time ago" it's not nearly as far back as you Europeans mean when you say "a long time ago." Ha ha

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

That is not correct. Historically, strong people have taken advantage of weaker people. Only in the very recent history of mankind have some societies evolved to function without slavery, looting of neighbours and such.
If we choose to interpret mr. Lewis' words in that manner, that we must try to be better than we are naturally inclined, they might be ok.

?‍

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm gonna spit some words into the fire one last time before I go to bed, because I've had a long day, gentlemen.
It's one thing to go looking to say things that push someone else further away, and it's another to try to find words that bring us closer together. Nothing good has ever come out of pushing someone away. Nothing at all.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I'm not asking you to do it, unless you want to please warren and embers

Nothing pleasing me. Any time a thread delves into generalizations of a type, a debate ensues followed by a war. Seems to only thing pipe smokers have in common with one another is being argumentative. There's already wisps of smoke rising from this one.

 

[olkofri]

There's already wisps of smoke rising from this one.

S'ok, as long as it's not latakia.

 

[Misanthrope]

In the ancient words of the sage Notconfused: Man without chest also lack arm and head. On bright side, not need buy shirt or hat, only pants and shoe.

 

[olkofri]

 

[brian64]

it’s taken six pages of resistance for me to comment on this thread. And I’m going to attempt to hold out for the next six.

Now here's a man who is demonstrating strength for us all to follow. His only weakness was posting that comment...but still impressive.

 

[brian64]

Sometimes I struggle to understand the relevance of some posts.

Now there is something that we should all be able to agree on.

 

[brian64]

I'm gonna spit some words into the fire one last time before I go to bed, because I've had a long day, gentlemen.
It's one thing to go looking to say things that push someone else further away, and it's another to try to find words that bring us closer together. Nothing good has ever come out of pushing someone away. Nothing at all.

Nice sentiments, and I mostly agree. But I would stop short of saying nothing and ever...because I've definitely experienced people and situations that required "pushing away" (for lack of a better way to put it).

But generally speaking, your comments are well taken...because I don't think there's ever been a more divisive time in my lifetime than everything that is going on now (which gets back to the OP). And it all could get much, much worse if it continues the way it is. And imo, there are some interests who would like to see that happen.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

There are men with chests and then there are men with chests.......

Meat Loaf in the movie Fight Club: