Let’s Talk Lakeland’s…

[cosmicfolklore]

Lakelands just explore genres of flavor you rarely see anywhere else.

This is the thing... when someone is exposed to a taste, scent, or sound that they are unfamiliar with, repulsion is the obvious reaction. Think about seeing a VanGogh Painting, at a time, when no one was painting abstract. Being ahead of his time was his downfall. Or, hearing Chinese singing for the first time.
At the time that these became popular, those smells were everywhere in England. Rose geranium soaps, tonka bean colognes. I ordered a few Lakeland colognes a few years ago, that were named for some of the popular scents of the 1800's, and they were just like the tobaccos. Ha ha, I was not about to wear them, but I was curious. You can find them on Amazon.

But, to the modern US palate, most of have only contacted these fragrances from our Grand parents and great grand parents. And, even so... it still baffles me that men chose (even back then) rose geranium as a tobacco scent. I liken it to chose Channel #5 as a, aromatic... why so girly?

That all said, it took me weeks to get used to Ennerdale. Thank goodness it had no rose geranium in it. It did seem to have some banana oils in it as well. It still had too strong of an added flavor for my likes. I could barely make out any tobacco flavors, and I enjoyed it more when I cut it with C&D's Virginia Flake. But, I've had my fill of it. Been there, done that, and no need to buy any more for me.

 

[sandollars]

Some of my all-time and daily favorites are made by G&H. I don't buy them for their Lakeland essence, I buy them for the complete taste experience. Lakeland adds to that experience, it's not THE experience.

Regarding Bob's Chocolate Flake; there is most definitely notes of Lakeland essence in it but not as pronounced as Coniston or DF Scented. I also get it from Rum Flake. The loss of G&H would really put me in a depression. I am a Burley guy and it is my experience that blends with more than 40% Virginia (20% Red Virginia) cause a chemical reaction in my mouth so I shy away from them. Ennerdale is excellent for the first 5 puffs and then it starts to eff my mouth up. I wish it didn't because it's great.

 

[SmokeClouds]

I try to look at this products in a historical context. In the early 19th century most people in the Western world had very poor hygiene. Large cities were quite filthy to current standards, very crowded and lacking sanitation services. People used to throw their trash and human waste out their windows into the streets. Rodents, pigs and other domestic animals would roam the streets freely. Therefore, I think, intense fragrances might have been popular and exotic. Smoking something flower or fruit scented could have been very refreshing.
Bananas/tonka beans etc would have been very exotic and expensive in Northern England at the time.

 

[SmokeClouds]

I have been trying to email them but the website has been saying “Under construction, new website coming soon”. No one seems to answer the phone either.

I wonder if others have visited? It would be great to go and have a look around - can you imagine the smells? ?

Rachel, who works for GH, is a member here. I would try to contact her through the forum.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I try to look at this products in a historical context. In the early 19th century most people in the Western world had very poor hygiene. Large cities were quite filthy to current standards, very crowded and lacking sanitation services. People used to throw their trash and human waste out their windows into the streets. Rodents, pigs and other domestic animals would roam the streets freely. Therefore, I think, intense fragrances might have been popular and exotic. Smoking something flower or fruit scented could have been very refreshing.
Bananas/tonka beans etc would have been very exotic and expensive in Northern England at the time.

I could see more easily enjoying these after not bathing for a few weeks and while sitting in a landfill.

 

[SmokeClouds]

I could see more easily enjoying these after not bathing for a few weeks and while sitting in a landfill.

The fear of bathing was real, and water in general. Washing the laundry would have been quite an experience…

 

[edger]

Since I can't get the Gawith Lakelands, I can't form an opinion. I do like Condor and St Bruno but are they Lakelands? If so, where do they fall in the range of Lakeland essence?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Since I can't get the Gawith Lakelands, I can't form an opinion. I do like Condor and St Bruno but are they Lakelands? If so, where do they fall in the range of Lakeland essence?

They are not Lakelands, but Lakeland-esque. The flavors are just as fucked up to the senses of the modern man, but they aren't the same essences used by the Lakeland perfume district.

 

[mingc]

I have been trying to email them but the website has been saying “Under construction, new website coming soon”. No one seems to answer the phone either.

I wonder if others have visited? It would be great to go and have a look around - can you imagine the smells? ?

@gawithhoggarth is a member here and would know if they do factory tours. Maybe she'll answer you.

"Lakeland" is a term adopted by pipe smokers, reflecting the location of GH and SG in the Lake District, to refer to their floral perfumed style of tobacco. I don't think GH or SG ever use the term themselves. Not everything GH and SG make is in that style, but what a speaker means precisely by "Lakeland" is up to that speaker. There are no longer other makers of that style in the UK and Ireland. The only other existing British or Irish manufacturer is Germain's, in the Channel Islands, which does not make that style.

I'm told that HU Sissinghurst and Elwood Flake No. 2, both made in Germany by Dan Tobacco, are in the GH & SG floral style but I've yet to crack my tin of Sissinghurst and need to order some Elwood.

Condor is in that style but supposedly the new Polish production is changed.

There are a number of American made blends that I know of that are perfumed, though they are not facsimiles of GH and SG. They are Mixture 79 (which is no longer as floral as it used to be), Peretti No Name, and Uhle 255 (mildly floral). GH and SGs tend to be flakes or plugs. The American blends are either ribbon or cube cut burleys.

Since I can't get the Gawith Lakelands, I can't form an opinion. I do like Condor and St Bruno but are they Lakelands? If so, where do they fall in the range of Lakeland essence?

Why can't you get the Gawiths? I do think of Condor as akin to the GH and SG florals, though supposedly new Polish made Condor is no longer its former self. Current day St. Bruno is excellent but you'd be hard pressed to taste any floral in it.

 

[edger]

They are not Lakelands, but Lakeland-esque. The flavors are just as fucked up to the senses of the modern man, but they aren't the same essences used by the Lakeland perfume district.

Are you insinuating that I might be a smelly Neanderthal?

 

[timelord]

Well I guess nothing is protected; if manufacturers don’t respect heritage, intellectual property, trademarks, patents and all those kinds of things, anything is fair game. As an example, present day China where just about anything can, and is, copied, often without any attempt to hide the copy.

It would be interesting to know why Stilton is protected but cheddar isn’t? Is this like Alan Partridge’s discussion on the Hoover And Tannoy?

I think it is simply that Cheddar was already being produced outside of the UK before the geographic protection laws were implemented.

from Wikipedia

The 19th-century Somerset dairyman Joseph Harding was central to the modernisation and standardisation of Cheddar cheese.[11] For his technical innovations, promotion of dairy hygiene, and volunteer dissemination of modern cheese-making techniques, he has been dubbed "the father of Cheddar cheese".[12] Harding introduced new equipment to the process of cheese-making, including his "revolving breaker" for curd cutting, saving much manual effort.[13][14] The "Joseph Harding method" was the first modern system for Cheddar production based upon scientific principles. Harding stated that Cheddar cheese is "not made in the field, nor in the byre, nor even in the cow, it is made in the dairy".[11] Together, Joseph Harding and his wife were behind the introduction of the cheese into Scotland and North America, while his sons Henry and William Harding were responsible for introducing Cheddar cheese production to Australia[15] and facilitating the establishment of the cheese industry in New Zealand respectively.

Also from Wikipedia

Cheeses in the style are produced all over the world, though cheddar cheese has no protected designation of origin either in the UK or the EU. In 2007, the Protected Designation of Origin name "West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" was registered in the EU and (after Brexit) the UK, defined as Cheddar produced from local milk within Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall and manufactured using traditional methods.[2][3] Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) was registered for Orkney Scottish Island Cheddar in 2013 in the EU,[4] which also applies under UK law.

 

[edger]

Hey @mingc, the Gawiths are a pain to find in the US I'm told.
Everybody is willing to say what Condor and St Bruno isn't (or aren't), but what combination of essences IS it?
To try and find blends similar to these I would be pleased to know what is in that sauce. If some members can help, I would appreciate it. Perhaps barking up the Lakeland tree, for me, is a fool's errand?

 

[Chasing Embers]

To try and find blends similar to these I would be pleased to know what is in that sauce.

Rose geranium oil.

GL Pease Stonehenge

Country Squire White Rose

 

[edger]

Rose geranium oil.

GL Pease Stonehenge

Country Squire White Rose

Thank you, Chasing, I will check them out when my wife is out of town.

 

[mingc]

Hey @mingc, the Gawiths are a pain to find in the US I'm told.
Everybody is willing to say what Condor and St Bruno isn't (or aren't), but what combination of essences IS it?
To try and find blends similar to these I would be pleased to know what is in that sauce. If some members can help, I would appreciate it. Perhaps barking up the Lakeland tree, for me, is a fool's errand?

I can't help you on the exact recipes for Condor or St. Bruno any more than I can for Dr. Pepper! But you can still buy tins of Ennerdale on SP.com as of this moment!

 

[Chasing Embers]

Thank you, Chasing, I will check them out when my wife is out of town.

Stonehenge was a collaboration between GH and Pease, its a little stronger. White Rose is more subtle.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Are you insinuating that I might be a smelly Neanderthal?

Ug ug, chumba womba!

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

I try to look at this products in a historical context. In the early 19th century most people in the Western world had very poor hygiene. Large cities were quite filthy to current standards, very crowded and lacking sanitation services. People used to throw their trash and human waste out their windows into the streets. Rodents, pigs and other domestic animals would roam the streets freely. Therefore, I think, intense fragrances might have been popular and exotic. Smoking something flower or fruit scented could have been very refreshing.
Bananas/tonka beans etc would have been very exotic and expensive in Northern England at the time.

Certainly, when tobacco was introduced to Britain, nosegays, to ward off miasmas, were something readily used by everyone to avoid having to smell the stench of life around them. This might have been where the scents used in early tobacco and snuff production came from? The tobacconists of the day may well have tried to replicate these smells with their tobaccos? I’d never really thought about it like that.

My order of Grasmere Flake arrived today and its tin note reminded me of Floris which, I think, is the oldest mens perfumerer (I’m not sure that is the correct word or if it is even a word) in existence, if not in the world then in Britain. Very bergamot and rose water type scent.

 

[jpberg]

One question, maybe 5 useful answers.

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

Since I can't get the Gawith Lakelands, I can't form an opinion. I do like Condor and St Bruno but are they Lakelands? If so, where do they fall in the range of Lakeland essence?

I seem to remember Condor (Gallaher’s production) had more floral features but I was a teenager when I smoked that so my memories could be put down to inexperience of the flavour or false memories?

I do get a nostalgic whiff of the old Condor though, when I smoke a bowl of G&H’s Rich Dark Honeydew or Spring Dew - somehow the flavour by passed my mental memory and taps into a taste memory that hasn’t been over worked.

The modern Condor is more table sauce than floral to me today.

As for St Bruno - I can’t get why people call it a Lakeland at all? If it is then I think it is on completely the opposite end of the scale to Ennerdale.

This leads me to another question - is the Lakeland experience a spectrum or is it a galaxy revolving around one archetypal Lakeland, that sit in the middle, like the sun? If this is the case, which Lakeland is the sun?

If it’s a scale then what is 0, 5 and 10 on that scale??

I love this hobby at times!!