Latakia Percentages

[Effortlessdepths]

Just wanted some quick opinions on Latakia percentage thresholds. As in, so much % is very subtle, like is C&D Big n' Burley, so much % makes it's presence known solidly for a typical English, so much % is approaching lat bomb, etc.

I got home amazing Izmir from C&D and I want to mix up some VA and Burley based englishes.

 

[Magpiety]

I know that Pirate Kake, which I would consider a lat bomb, is 75% latakia.

Part of what makes a blend latakia-forward or not is the interplay between the latakia and the other components. There are some blends that I've been surprised to find out have a high percentage of latakia because it's not very forward.

 

[cshubhra]

The Briar & Leaf Chronicles » Blog Archive » A Tale of Two Latakias

 

[F4RM3R]

10% is mild and adds a richness to the other tobaccos of a blend, but not necessarily a smokyness.
15% is getting a little smoky, still mostly adding richness again, but you can definitely tell it's there.
20-25% this would be more of a mild to medium english. It's definitely smoky and starts to lend its own camofire, leather incense to a blend instead of just adding to the other tobaccos . But generally you will taste all the tobaccos quite well in a blend with this amount .
30-40 this is getting to be quite full in flavour and is starting to dominate a blend. It would be considered a medium-full english
40%+ this is becoming lat bomb territory is going to be the center of attention in a blend.

I've also been thinking of it in other terms(which I was going to make a thread maybe) of how long the latakia flavour persists during the course of a bowl. As the initial smokyness always settles down a bit and in some of the lower percentages and it will almost disappear and the other tobaccos will take over.

 

[karam]

10% is mild and adds a richness to the other tobaccos of a blend, but not necessarily a smokyness.
15% is getting a little smoky, still mostly adding richness again, but you can definitely tell it's there.
20-25% this would be more of a mild to medium english. It's definitely smoky and starts to lend its own camofire, leather incense to a blend instead of just adding to the other tobaccos . But generally you will taste all the tobaccos quite well in a blend with this amount .
30-40 this is getting to be quite full in flavour and is starting to dominate a blend. It would be considered a medium-full english
40%+ this is becoming lat bomb territory is going to be the center of attention in a blend.

I've also been thinking of it in other terms(which I was going to make a thread maybe) of how long the latakia flavour persists during the course of a bowl. As the initial smokyness always settles down a bit and in some of the lower percentages and it will almost disappear and the other tobaccos will take over.

Pure gold.

To put it into context of blends I've smoked:

8%: G&H Bob's chocolate flake - I never detect the Latakia when smoking it, but do occasionally catch a whiff sniffing the flakes

~15-20% (not sure of actual amounts, this is ballparking): Early Morning Pipe - it is a very light Latakia blend, but it is there.

35%: Wolfway Pyramid (a blend only available in Greece, uses Egyptian Latakia) - the Lat is dominant but it's more leather and campfire than heavy creosote

35-50%+ : Nightcap/Old Ironsides/HU Zulu/Fayyum/HH Latakia Flake/ C&D Byzantium - Lat dominates and the rest are condiments/provide body, nuance, body etc

I haven't smoked a Lat blend I didn't like apart from C&D Mississippi Mud and GLP Gaslight, the Gaslight tasted like ammonia to me, and Mississippi Mud...let's not go there.

 

[Effortlessdepths]

10% is mild and adds a richness to the other tobaccos of a blend, but not necessarily a smokyness.
15% is getting a little smoky, still mostly adding richness again, but you can definitely tell it's there.
20-25% this would be more of a mild to medium english. It's definitely smoky and starts to lend its own camofire, leather incense to a blend instead of just adding to the other tobaccos . But generally you will taste all the tobaccos quite well in a blend with this amount .
30-40 this is getting to be quite full in flavour and is starting to dominate a blend. It would be considered a medium-full english
40%+ this is becoming lat bomb territory is going to be the center of attention in a blend.

I've also been thinking of it in other terms(which I was going to make a thread maybe) of how long the latakia flavour persists during the course of a bowl. As the initial smokyness always settles down a bit and in some of the lower percentages and it will almost disappear and the other tobaccos will take over.

I'm going for a medium english, so I'll start out with 25%. With that in mind, could you speak to the amount and percentage of Oriental/Turkish in this mix? I will almost certainly be using C&D Izmir as it's the tastiest one I have, though I do have some Smyrna that I got from P&C, as well as P&C's "Blending -- Turkish Ribbon Cut".

Also, I plan on using Virginia as the base (might try a burley English in the future. Im sure bright Virginia would be a good choice, but what do you think of a red Virginia, like sutliff matured red 515 rc?

I know, lots of questions....

 

[Ahi Ka]

I found this really helpful:

 

[F4RM3R]

I'm going for a medium english, so I'll start out with us25%. With that in mind, could you speak to the amount and percentage of Oriental/Turkish in this mix? I will almost certainly be using C&D Izmir as it's the tastiest one I have, though I do have some Smyrna that I got from P&C, as well as P&C's "Blending -- Turkish Ribbon Cut".

Also, I plan on using Virginia as the base (might try a burley English in the future. Im sure bright Virginia would be a good choice, but what do you think of a red Virginia, like sutliff matured red 515 rc?

I know, lots of questions....

I personally like a good oriental presence in my English blends so I go with 10% and up to 15% for an oriental forward blend. Beyond 15% it's going to be quite spicy and will start to mask the latakia. 5-10% adds a light aromatic dimension but still keeps the other tobaccos as the focus. I don't go less than 5%, but that's me and I like to taste orientals distinctly when I use them. I find around 10% is the magic number for alot of blends.

It depends on the leaf too, those varieties you have are more robust in their flavour compared to something like an airy basma. Also oriental leaves are generally thin so you need less since they can really "spread around" when mixed in a ribbon blend. Sometimes I'll just weigh it and then go by how a blend looks when I add the orientals at the end little by little until it seems like there is a nice portion of the light coloured leaf throughout the whole blend. This often ends up being just shy of what I thought I needed by weight as it spreads around better than heavier leaf does.

As for virginia, alot of blends use a mix of red and bright and some use only red or bright. When using a single leaf virginia in English blends I think reds are more common but honestly there is every variation of amount of these in various blends.

My preference leans towards the fuller bready fruit notes of a red but the bright pairs well with the floral and sour notes of the oriental. So I like to use both (maybe 60-75% red and the rest bright)and sometimes add a brown or black stoved version of the virginia in there too. But it's really up to you and your preferences. Using either or won't really make or break a blend, like too much/little of latakia or orientals can do, just offer different flavours.

 

[Effortlessdepths]

Than

I personally like a good oriental presence in my English blends so I go with 10% and up to 15% for an oriental forward blend. Beyond 15% it's going to be quite spicy and will start to mask the latakia. 5-10% adds a light aromatic dimension but still keeps the other tobaccos as the focus. I don't go less than 5%, but that's me and I like to taste orientals distinctly when I use them. I find around 10% is the magic number for alot of blends.

It depends on the leaf too, those varieties you have are more robust in their flavour compared to something like an airy basma. Also oriental leaves are generally thin so you need less since they can really "spread around" when mixed in a ribbon blend. Sometimes I'll just weigh it and then go by how a blend looks when I add the orientals at the end little by little until it seems like there is a nice portion of the light coloured leaf throughout the whole blend. This often ends up being just shy of what I thought I needed by weight as it spreads around better than heavier leaf does.

As for virginia, alot of blends use a mix of red and bright and some use only red or bright. When using a single leaf virginia in English blends I think reds are more common but honestly there is every variation of amount of these in various blends.

My preference leans towards the fuller bready fruit notes of a red but the bright pairs well with the floral and sour notes of the oriental. So I like to use both (maybe 60-75% red and the rest bright)and sometimes add a brown or black stoved version of the virginia in there too. But it's really up to you and your preferences. Using either or won't really make or break a blend, like too much/little of latakia or orientals can do, just offer different flavours.

Thank you SO much... This is exactly what I needed. I'll be going with 25% lat, 15% Izmir, 40% sutliff matured red 515rc, 20% bright Virginia.

Also, I'm making an order with wholeleaftobacco.com and getting some of their red VA, hand tied bright VA, Katerini Turkish, and Maryland, so I can take a stab at blending whole leaves again. Any suggestions on a setup for making plugs/flakes?

 

[F4RM3R]

Than
Thank you SO much... This is exactly what I needed. I'll be going with 25% lat, 15% Izmir, 40% sutliff matured red 515rc, 20% bright Virginia.

Also, I'm making an order with wholeleaftobacco.com and getting some of their red VA, hand tied bright VA, Katerini Turkish, and Maryland, so I can take a stab at blending whole leaves again. Any suggestions on a setup for making plugs/flakes?

Awesome, glad I could help and good luck with the blend!

For a press I've tried lots of homemade inventions like the pvc pipe and c clamp style but this noodle press is the best and easiest. Just get it and save yourself the trouble. It makes a nice size plug and you can easily fit 2oz of tobacco.

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-cranked-press-noodle-machine-Stainless/dp/B076Z77DZH

The same one is on wish for like 13$ but if you want it quicker than amazon or a local store is your best bet.

Nice selection of tobaccos. I currently have their red va, hand tied bright, latakia, kentucky, basma, prelip and perique that I use to create blends. All wonderful high quality leaf. I recently got the prelip as the basma is very light, sour/sweet and floral and not very woody/musty/spicy, which is what I like about orientals, but mixed together they do quite well. I'm still searching for a potent oriental with lots of incense and curry flavour I don't think the selection of whole leaf has anything like that though. They seem to be on the lighter side. My buddy from the pipe club where I am gave me some 2015 izmir and it blew me away, I'm making a john cottons style english blend to trade for the rest of his stash. But it will only go so far, I guess izmir is what I'm looking for?

 

[Effortlessdepths]

Awesome, glad I could help and good luck with the blend!

For a press I've tried lots of homemade inventions like the pvc pipe and c clamp style but this noodle press is the best and easiest. Just get it and save yourself the trouble. It makes a nice size plug and you can easily fit 2oz of tobacco.

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-cranked-press-noodle-machine-Stainless/dp/B076Z77DZH

The same one is on wish for like 13$ but if you want it quicker than amazon or a local store is your best bet.

Nice selection of tobaccos. I currently have their red va, hand tied bright, latakia, kentucky, basma, prelip and perique that I use to create blends. All wonderful high quality leaf. I recently got the prelip as the basma is very light, sour/sweet and floral and not very woody/musty/spicy, which is what I like about orientals, but mixed together they do quite well. I'm still searching for a potent oriental with lots of incense and curry flavour I don't think the selection of whole leaf has anything like that though. They seem to be on the lighter side. My buddy from the pipe club where I am gave me some 2015 izmir and it blew me away, I'm making a john cottons style english blend to trade for the rest of his stash. But it will only go so far, I guess izmir is what I'm looking for?

The Izmir, at least from C&D, is the only Oriental I've gotten my hands on that really has that strong woodsy spicy musty flavor. Did you try the katerini from WLT? You might try leafonly, their regular VA and Burley weren't great (though to be fair it was 3 years ago when I tried them and my palate wasn't as developed back then) but the last time I checked they actually had Izmir, and other orientals like samsun I think.

Also, I have two of those noddle presses, and I use them to press the blending ribbon I have, but I want to make a plug. Don't the big boys press the whole entire leaves all on top of each other, then cut squares into plugs, then slice them into flake?

 

[sumusfumus]

The Briar & Leaf Chronicles » Blog Archive » A Tale of Two Latakias

Thanks for the link to a very informative article. I learned something new, today.

 

[F4RM3R]

The Izmir, at least from C&D, is the only Oriental I've gotten my hands on that really has that strong woodsy spicy musty flavor. Did you try the katerini from WLT? You might try leafonly, their regular VA and Burley weren't great (though to be fair it was 3 years ago when I tried them and my palate wasn't as developed back then) but the last time I checked they actually had Izmir, and other orientals like samsun I think.

Also, I have two of those noddle presses, and I use them to press the blending ribbon I have, but I want to make a plug. Don't the big boys press the whole entire leaves all on top of each other, then cut squares into plugs, then slice them into flake?

I've only tried the prelip and basma. I was considering katerini but I'll wait a bit and and get to know the prelip a little more. I saw leaf only had it and others which might be nice, but I to had a bad experience with their virginia and burley a few years ago so I only shop wholeleaftobacco as they never disappoint.

As for the press, I just take the main stem off then rip or fold the leaves into smaller pieces(about the width of the noodle press) and layer them in there. Makes a plug/flake like any other. For a denser plug I moisten the leaf a little more. I just leave it overnight and by morning it's a solid puck.

 

[karam]

I'm still searching for a potent oriental with lots of incense and curry flavour

The mention of curry sparked my brain, you're likely looking for Wolfway's Epos Blue, pure Basma from Greece, sadly just sold in Greece.

I got a friend who very happily puffs this all day, he was bugging me for a while but I wasn't budging, until he gave me two bowls' worth. I bought a pouch a couple of days after as it totally blew me away by how delicious and fragrant it is.

 

[Effortlessdepths]

I've only tried the prelip and basma. I was considering katerini but I'll wait a bit and and get to know the prelip a little more. I saw leaf only had it and others which might be nice, but I to had a bad experience with their virginia and burley a few years ago so I only shop wholeleaftobacco as they never disappoint.

As for the press, I just take the main stem off then rip or fold the leaves into smaller pieces(about the width of the noodle press) and layer them in there. Makes a plug/flake like any other. For a denser plug I moisten the leaf a little more. I just leave it overnight and by morning it's a solid puck.

Cool, I didn't realize you could make a plug that way, that's good to know. I didn't feel like building anything else, I have too many projects like that right now. The order of whole leaves from WLT is coming with a spray bottle of citrus flavored casing for flue cured blends, do you have experience using it? Would I just spritz the leaves before pressing?

 

[F4RM3R]

Cool, I didn't realize you could make a plug that way, that's good to know. I didn't feel like building anything else, I have too many projects like that right now. The order of whole leaves from WLT is coming with a spray bottle of citrus flavored casing for flue cured blends, do you have experience using it? Would I just spritz the leaves before pressing?

I haven't tried any of their casings. If I do use casing I mostly stick to bourbon/spiced rum, maple syrup, molasses and tonka beans(soaked in alcohol) but yes you can just spray before pressing, warming up the leaf a little helps to soak in a bit better(especially with ribbon cut blends) but for a plug just spray and press.

 

[F4RM3R]

The mention of curry sparked my brain, you're likely looking for Wolfway's Epos Blue, pure Basma from Greece, sadly just sold in Greece.

I got a friend who very happily puffs this all day, he was bugging me for a while but I wasn't budging, until he gave me two bowls' worth. I bought a pouch a couple of days after as it totally blew me away by how delicious and fragrant it is.

That's interesting. With orientals it seems like there can be quite a difference in flavour depending on growing regions and conditions, there are also probably many varieties of basma leaf as well, which could make a big difference. I find the basma from whole leaf is light airy floral notes with sour tang and sweetness, but no musty curry going on.

 

[karam]

That's interesting. With orientals it seems like there can be quite a difference in flavour depending on growing regions and conditions, there are also probably many varieties of basma leaf as well, which could make a big difference. I find the basma from whole leaf is light airy floral notes with sour tang and sweetness, but no musty curry going on.

I really don't know, though they are my region's tobaccos, and tobacco aficionados over here will talk your ears off about how great Greek and Balkan (and Turkish, if they are in a good mood!) tobaccos are, how floral, sweet, etc etc etc. I admit I was a bit short-sighted and didn't want to try it, and was extremely pleasantly surprised, it really tastes like a blend yet it is single leaf. It tastes pretty full, pungent but also light, fragrant, floral, and it definitely made me think of curry and cumin, but it hadn't really clicked with me before reading about it.

Also, apologies for the double post, I'm definitely planning to try the bolded bit below Only question is: how do you use the tonka beans? I thought to grind them in alcohol, like spiced rum, filter the sludge out after a couple of days, then dissolve some honey in the mixture and proceed with how you told me in PM (heat the tobacco in the oven and mist a few times)

I haven't tried any of their casings. If I do use casing I mostly stick to bourbon/spiced rum, maple syrup, molasses and tonka beans(soaked in alcohol) but yes you can just spray before pressing, warming up the leaf a little helps to soak in a bit better(especially with ribbon cut blends) but for a plug just spray and press.

 

[JOHN72]

I love the mixture with a minimum of 50- 75% latakia............................

 

[mso489]

Lat and Perique are wonderful condiments, and I'd be fibbing if I said I didn't enjoy them, but they are grossly overused, the default condiments in too many blends. So always consider leaving them out. You'll get plenty of both whether you want them or not.