Krumble Kake Kraziness

[BriarsAndBottles]

As some of you might know, I am not opposed to spending more than many find sane for a tin of tobacco. However, when I do it’s usually because the tin is some combination of: highly rated, old, and/or limited production.

Krumble kake doesn’t seem to be any of these yet it consistently demands House of Sobranie level pricing. Am I missing something? It’s nice to feel comfortable leaving my hand in my wallet pocket and letting it stat there, I’m just curious about the frenzy on this stuff.

 

[sasquatch]

Uhhh, it's highly rated, old, and limited (out of) production. Don't get it confused for Pirate Kake or various Crumble Cakes or whatever stuff that sounds like that. Krumble Kake was made by Germain's for Smoker's Haven, it's incredible, and no one's seen any for years, and there's none coming.

Do what thou wilt.

 

[hawky454]

If I remember correctly, Sobranie used to make it for Smokers Haven before Germain’s. . So in a way, it still has that legendary status of Sobranie. KK is very rare though so it fits the bill for a high priced tobacco.

 

[jguss]

As some of you might know, I am not opposed to spending more than many find sane for a tin of tobacco. However, when I do it’s usually because the tin is some combination of: highly rated, old, and/or limited production.

Krumble kake doesn’t seem to be any of these yet it consistently demands House of Sobranie level pricing.

It’s actually all of these. As hawky says older tins were made by Sobranie and subsequent ones by Germain. Those are in fact the marquis names in the resale tobacco arena and command the highest prices. Add the fact that it’s a genuinely great blend which hasn’t been made for about 15 years and you’ll understand why it’s priced so highly on the secondary market. Well-heeled collectors pay up for unicorns. Last time I looked an 8 oz bag of KK was selling for over a grand and 2 oz tins were pushing $500.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Yes:



No:

 

[jguss]

I got this for $500 on Saturday; did I overpay?

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

It’s actually all of these. As hawky says older tins were made by Sobranie and subsequent ones by Germain. Those are in fact the marquis names in the resale tobacco arena and command the highest prices. Add the fact that it’s a genuinely great blend which hasn’t been made for about 15 years and you’ll understand why it’s priced so highly on the secondary market. Well-heeled collectors pay up for unicorns. Last time I looked an 8 oz bag of KK was selling for over a grand and 2 oz tins were pushing $500.

Maybe you are a youngen. But I don’t consider 15 years that old. Are their other review sites other than tobacco reviews, cause there are a few dozen blends with higher ratings. It also seems to be made multiple years not a one time release. $200 makes sense but $500 just seems odd. To each their own. That’s more expensive, double really, than Sullivan and Powell and elephant and castle blends which seem more rare and more highly regarded.

 

[jpberg]

Whether or not your head can get wrapped around it, it’s very rare, very good, and unlike anything else.
I still think I got the last ( or damn near) sleeve Premal had, that was around 2008.

 

[sablebrush52]

Maybe you are a youngen. But I don’t consider 15 years that old. Are their other review sites other than tobacco reviews, cause there are a few dozen blends with higher ratings. It also seems to be made multiple years not a one time release. $200 makes sense but $500 just seems odd. To each their own. That’s more expensive, double really, than Sullivan and Powell and elephant and castle blends which seem more rare and more highly regarded.

Krumble Kake was in production for many years, but not in large amounts. It was just a private label blend. Then one day it was gone, Five years ago there was an announcement from Smokers Haven that Krumble Kake would be coming back. Never happened. Not going to happen since too many years have passed. At best it would be a clone with a famous label.

As for reviews, reviews are simply personal reactions to an experience. A lot of highly celebrated blends have less celebrated ratings. Ratings are an indication, not an absolute. One man's drink is another man's poison, etc, etc.

When something becomes hard to find, the Psychopathy of Scarcity kicks in, and the object of desire takes on all sorts of attributes it really doesn't have. Give a tin of "whatsis" a famous name and famous artwork and people will crawl over each other to get some of it. Works for Esoterica, and the new stuff is crap ,IMHO, compared to just a few years ago, and people are shelling out $$$$$$$ for it. None of this is the least rational, but it's very human.

Now, if you're looking for something really great, find a tin of State Express London Mixture. It will set you back a few hundred, less than Krumble Kake, but THAT one will be worth it.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

Krumble Kake was in production for many years, but not in large amounts. It was just a private label blend. Then one day it was gone, Five years ago there was an announcement from Smokers Haven that Krumble Kake would be coming back. Never happened. Not going to happen since too many years have passed. At best it would be a clone with a famous label.

As for reviews, reviews are simply personal reactions to an experience. A lot of highly celebrated blends have less celebrated ratings. Ratings are an indication, not an absolute. One man's drink is another man's poison, etc, etc.

When something becomes hard to find, the Psychopathy of Scarcity kicks in, and the object of desire takes on all sorts of attributes it really doesn't have. Give a tin of "whatsis" a famous name and famous artwork and people will crawl over each other to get some of it. Works for Esoterica, and the new stuff is crap ,IMHO, compared to just a few years ago, and people are shelling out $$$$$$$ for it. None of this is the least rational, but it's very human.

Now, if you're looking for something really great, find a tin of State Express London Mixture. It will set you back a few hundred, less than Krumble Kake, but THAT one will be worth it.

Well said. London Mixture is at the top of my list, haven’t found anyone willing to sell me some yet. And I was sniped on Tinbids when I saw it last which was right around Christmas last year. I’m being optimistic a tin will show up eventually.

What happened to Germains? I ain’t about to spend $500 for a bag of something made a few years ago, seems to be real popular in China for some reason. Maybes it’s like the Johnny walker blue label of pipe tobacco, given as a prestige gift.

 

[sablebrush52]

Well said. London Mixture is at the top of my list, haven’t found anyone willing to sell me some yet. And I was sniped on Tinbids when I saw it last which was right around Christmas last year. I’m being optimistic a tin will show up eventually.

What happened to Germains? I ain’t about to spend $500 for a bag of something made a few years ago, seems to be real popular in China for some reason. Maybes it’s like the Johnny walker blue label of pipe tobacco, given as a prestige gift.

Esoterica is the rage in China, and has been for years. People will pull together money for a purchase which they will share. Different attitude than here, where it's all about Moi. People have been acting screwy about Esoterica since the temporary shortage of Penzance in 2007. Not going to change now.
As for Germain's components? Same thing that happening everywhere. Suppliers go away, raise their prices, and new supplies and replacements are found, but those new supplies aren't flavor matches, so the flavors shift.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

Whether or not your head can get wrapped around it, it’s very rare, very good, and unlike anything else.
I still think I got the last ( or damn near) sleeve Premal had, that was around 2008.

I’m sure it’s excellent, just not sure it’s twice as good as Sullivans Gentlemen or Special mixture. Sometimes people are looking for a quick sale, maybe I’ll get lucky on Tinbids one day.

 

[sablebrush52]

I’m sure it’s excellent, just not sure it’s twice as good as Sullivans Gentlemen or Special mixture. Sometimes people are looking for a quick sale, maybe I’ll get lucky on Tinbids one day.

It's on TinBids now. Some idiot fanboy aficionado of Stonehaven, or at least his bot, is up to $650 for a bag from 2015.

 

[Terry Lennox]

We are living in a time of abundance in terms of blends and availability (at least in some markets like the US and Germany). So if you don't want to spend on this stuff you have many options. But because some of the types of leaf available to blenders has changed some older pipers have not been able to recreate their fondest earlier experiences. To some of them it is worth chasing these tins and paying high prices. If you compare a $300 tin of rare tobacco to a $300 box of premium cigars it starts to seem more rational.

What I think has gotten out of hand is people trying to sell common tins at a premium with a just 3 or 4 years of age. Why would anyone buy a random C&D tin from 2019 for more than retail? That is what I shake my head at.

 

[jguss]

Maybe you are a youngen.

Unless you're older than your avatar suggests the odds are pretty good I have t-shirts older than you

To each their own.

Yes, that's the entire point. You didn't ask why a $500 tin of KK might be worth that much to you (it obviously isn't); you basically asked why it would be worth it to anyone and you got an answer. The fact that you weren't satisfied with the answer is only another way of saying you wouldn't pay that much. But other people demonstrably would and demonstrably do. The price in a fair market represents the intersection between supply and demand. Many factors play into where that intersection occurs, some objective (e.g. provenance, scarcity, etc) and others subjective (e.g. prestige, quality, etc). At the end of the day an arms length transaction tells us the governing market price at a moment in time. Someone paid it because it was worth it to them. There is no other answer to your question.

That’s more expensive, double really, than Sullivan and Powell and elephant and castle blends which seem more rare and more highly regarded.

Rarity and value are not synonymous. The rarest obscure cutter top will command less money than a pop top tin of 759. And KK by the way is actually pretty damn rare, certainly compared to the major S&P blends. But there's another point too; in every hobby high prices always teases inventory out of hiding. Sure, nobody's making KK anymore, but at $500/tin we're seeing more on offer now than in the last couple of years as holders think to themselves "gee that's a lot of dough; at that price maybe it's worth more to someone else than it is to me". If the price hits $1000/tin there will be still more offered for sale, and if the price plummeted to $100/tin you'll see none.

I have tins of all these blends by the way; S&P, E&S, SELM and KK. Frankly I think KK is as good as or better than the any of the others. And all the blends, by the way, were regular production blends which just happen not to be made any more. Limited edition hype is a relatively new phenomenon in the pipe tobacco world.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

Unless you're older than your avatar suggests the odds are pretty good I have t-shirts older than you



Yes, that's the entire point. You didn't ask why a $500 tin of KK might be worth that much to you (it obviously isn't); you basically asked why it would be worth it to anyone and you got an answer. The fact that you weren't satisfied with the answer is only another way of saying you wouldn't pay that much. But other people demonstrably would and demonstrably do. The price in a fair market represents the intersection between supply and demand. Many factors play into where that intersection occurs, some objective (e.g. provenance, scarcity, etc) and others subjective (e.g. prestige, quality, etc). At the end of the day an arms length transaction tells us the governing market price at a moment in time. Someone paid it because it was worth it to them. There is no other answer to your question.



Rarity and value are not synonymous. The rarest obscure cutter top will command less money than a pop top tin of 759. And KK by the way is actually pretty damn rare, certainly compared to the major S&P blends. But there's another point too; in every hobby high prices always teases inventory out of hiding. Sure, nobody's making KK anymore, but at $500/tin we're seeing more on offer now than in the last couple of years as holders think to themselves "gee that's a lot of dough; at that price maybe it's worth more to someone else than it is to me". If the price hits $1000/tin there will be still more offered for sale, and if the price plummeted to $100/tin you'll see none.

I have tins of all these blends by the way; S&P, E&S, SELM and KK. Frankly I think KK is as good as or better than the any of the others. And all the blends, by the way, were regular production blends which just happen not to be made any more. Limited edition hype is a relatively new phenomenon in the pipe tobacco world.

I figured you were older than I was. Just pulling your leg. People are welcome to pay $800 for a bag of 2022 stonehaven. I guess certain hype seems less crazy to me than others. If it wasn’t from this millennium I think I’d understand. You’ve only made me want some more than I did previously, so thanks for the Koolaid!

You have some awesome perspective and a cellar I’d probably sell an organ for. Thanks for a fun exchange and educating me on some things!

I’m assuming E&S was a typo for E&C. What is SELM? Sobranie?.

 

[jpberg]

Unless you're older than your avatar suggests the odds are pretty good I have t-shirts older than you



Yes, that's the entire point. You didn't ask why a $500 tin of KK might be worth that much to you (it obviously isn't); you basically asked why it would be worth it to anyone and you got an answer. The fact that you weren't satisfied with the answer is only another way of saying you wouldn't pay that much. But other people demonstrably would and demonstrably do. The price in a fair market represents the intersection between supply and demand. Many factors play into where that intersection occurs, some objective (e.g. provenance, scarcity, etc) and others subjective (e.g. prestige, quality, etc). At the end of the day an arms length transaction tells us the governing market price at a moment in time. Someone paid it because it was worth it to them. There is no other answer to your question.



Rarity and value are not synonymous. The rarest obscure cutter top will command less money than a pop top tin of 759. And KK by the way is actually pretty damn rare, certainly compared to the major S&P blends. But there's another point too; in every hobby high prices always teases inventory out of hiding. Sure, nobody's making KK anymore, but at $500/tin we're seeing more on offer now than in the last couple of years as holders think to themselves "gee that's a lot of dough; at that price maybe it's worth more to someone else than it is to me". If the price hits $1000/tin there will be still more offered for sale, and if the price plummeted to $100/tin you'll see none.

I have tins of all these blends by the way; S&P, E&S, SELM and KK. Frankly I think KK is as good as or better than the any of the others. And all the blends, by the way, were regular production blends which just happen not to be made any more. Limited edition hype is a relatively new phenomenon in the pipe tobacco world.

I know what my tastebuds are worth, but I’m with you.
E&C never did it for me, S&P was just fine, and my last two tins of SELM were compromised.
KK is rarer, and for me, more enjoyable than the rest.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

Nvm. State express London mixture

 

[kcghost]

We have this same argument over and over. If you find something that you but think is overpriced, then don't buy it. The market will tell if it agrees or not. And if you think buying something just out of production then same thing. don't buy it.
You don't think tobaccos are reviewed properly then start on of your own.

 

[BriarsAndBottles]

We have this same argument over and over. If you find something that you but think is overpriced, then don't buy it. The market will tell if it agrees or not. And if you think buying something just out of production then same thing. don't buy it.
You don't think tobaccos are reviewed properly then start on of your own.

Isn’t that the point of this forum? No argument. I assumed the following: KK isn’t as old as some other expensive blends, that it’s not highly regarded based on tr.com, and that it was higher production.

Through a discussion with members with more knowledge, I was informed of: in spite of it not being that old, it carries the legacy of Sobranie which is quite old; that even though it’s not that highly rated on tr.com many people on this forum think it’s amazing; and it’s lower output than it’s multiple years of production would indicate.

I had a legitimate question, and I was given serious answers. Not sure where I would have gotten any of this information otherwise.