Ken Byron Ventures’ Post About Loss Of Sutliff

[hoipolloiglasgow]

I hate it for KBV. Peretti’s line is going to hurt as well. Basically, all B&Ms will.

 

[woodsroad]

They might sell the recipes if retirement isn't as comfy as they hope it to be, I hope that won't be the case but I don't see them selling any other way

“Recipes” have almost nothing to do with McClelland’s blend’s superiority. It’s all about leaf selection and process, things that can not and will not be replicated without the McNeil’s direct involvement on an ongoing basis.

 

[Zamora]

Losers give up just because somethings changes. The real blenders will find a way to continue doing what they do and not rely on Sutliff tobaccos.

I suspect the B&Ms that at best combine two bulks and pass it off as a new blend or at worse just rename a bulk and pass it as a house blend will give up or just switch to similar Lane and Stokkebye bulks, but serious house blenders LJ Peretti, Country Squire, Watch City, Boswell, etc. will find ways to continue producing quality products. They'll probably invest in equipment if need be

 

[sablebrush52]

Losers give up just because somethings changes. The real blenders will find a way to continue doing what they do and not rely on Sutliff tobaccos.

I think that part of the issue for KBV is that they sometimes sourced small leftover amounts of aged tobaccos of a particular quality to make their micro batch releases, amounts way too small to be used by a company like C&D. It's the sort of stuff that turns up in a forgotten corner of a warehouse. That becomes much more difficult when the warehouse is gone. Since it's not their primary income they can move on and enjoy life doing something else.

 

[fireground_piper]

I think that part of the issue for KBV is that they sometimes sourced small leftover amounts of aged tobaccos of a particular quality to make their micro batch releases, amounts way too small to be used by a company like C&D. It's the sort of stuff that turns up in a forgotten corner of a warehouse. That becomes much more difficult when the warehouse is gone. Since it's not their primary income they can move on and enjoy life doing something else.

That’s fine, but on the other end they also did things like stove an existing blend and sell it as a product and I’m sure everything inbetween.

My only point is it’s a loser attitude to pack it all up because a supplier closed down and to doom and gloom post about it. Pull your boots up and go do something about it. Or I guess you can just close up, poo poo everything and fall back on “oh this was just for funzies anyway”.

 

[sablebrush52]

That’s fine, but on the other end they also did things like stove an existing blend and sell it as a product and I’m sure everything inbetween.

At the very beginning, years ago. They moved past the pastiche blending to doing actual blending.
But they could use odd lots because they did 20+ lb runs. Completely different working model than “small” 1000 lb batches.
Conditions change. Some adapt, others move on.
I’m adaptive. That’s how I lasted in an ageist environment for decades past where others got pushed out of the airlock.
I don’t judge others for deciding to pursue other options. It’s sometimes the smarter form of adaptation.

 

[Auxsender]

That’s fine, but on the other end they also did things like stove an existing blend and sell it as a product and I’m sure everything inbetween.

My only point is it’s a loser attitude to pack it all up because a supplier closed down and to doom and gloom post about it. Pull your boots up and go do something about it. Or I guess you can just close up, poo poo everything and fall back on “oh this was just for funzies anyway”.

Have you been a commercial pipe tobacco blender for a long time?
I’m guessing you have because you seem to know better than Ken Byron about the state of his business and how to best run it.

Perhaps his insight as the owner of Ken Byron Ventures is dwarfed by your obviously superior and undoubtedly accurate sense of the state of the retail pipe tobacco blending business.

You should send Ken an email and let him know how much of a loser attitude you think he has.

 

[fireground_piper]

At the very beginning, years ago. They moved past the pastiche blending to doing actual blending.
But they could use odd lots because they did 20+ lb runs. Completely different working model than “small” 1000 lb batches.
Conditions change. Some adapt, others move on.
I’m adaptive. That’s how I lasted in an ageist environment for decades past where others got pushed out of the airlock.
I don’t judge others for deciding to pursue other options. It’s sometimes the smarter form of adaptation.

I have no issues if he wants to shut down. Everyone has that right. My callout is specifically on the defeatist attitude while also falling back to "this was all for fun anyway" type of attitude to justify it.

Just say your are going to shut down and be done with it.

 

[fireground_piper]

Have you been a commercial pipe tobacco blender for a long time?
I’m guessing you have because you seem to know better than Ken Byron about the state of his business and how to best run it.

Perhaps his insight as the owner of Ken Byron Ventures is dwarfed by your obviously superior and undoubtedly accurate sense of the state of the retail pipe tobacco blending business.

You should send Ken an email and let him know how much of a loser attitude you think he has.

My statement has nothing to do with being in the industry. It's simply a statement on an attitude and the persona presented.

 

[telescopes]

I have no issues if he wants to shut down. Everyone has that right. My callout is specifically on the defeatist attitude while also falling back to "this was all for fun anyway" type of attitude to justify it.

Just say your are going to shut down and be done with it.

Nothing productive comes from calling someone a loser - especially when they have measured their own business metrics based on their own business experiences. Price margins, labor, regulations - all factor into a decision. KBV expressed their thoughts in a short release. The release conveyed disappointments. What it did not convey nor is it necessary to convey is all the back room decision-making that went into the decision to close up shop. That is a given - and it could be just as easy to suggest that anyone who is unable to understand that might be a candidate for the word loser themselves. But… that would be unproductive to suggest that. It would have been kinder, more empathetic, and humane to simply suggest disappointment with KBV’s decision and wish them well. Anything else is presumptive and unhelpful.

 

[bpinkstaff]

I got this from KBV’s website. I saw on Pater Piper’s YouTube channel that KBV apparently has a more recent post (unless I misunderstood Pater Piper) about the demise of many of his blends due to Sutliff’s closing, but couldn’t find it. Perhaps it is on Instagram or an email to customers which I did not receive.

From KBV:

“If it’s true…​

/ News / By Master Chief
Stuff N’ Things on STG/Sutliff
News to me!

Well, I’ll try to explain this as well I can. Sutliff was the happy “common carrier” for pipe tobacco manufacture in America. Sutliff had a hand in everything. Sutliff was a backbone of many brick and mortars and that spine is being ripped out painfully. If true, this is economically damaging to the brick and mortar network that Sutliff had cultivated as it’s business model. Merry Christmas?
Without Sutliff, the hobby no longer can fill a catalog and will be relegated to an even smaller niche. Kill the competition, wound the hobby, collect the ghost of profits?
The only person in the business that I’ve seen show consistent acumen while trying to preserve tradition is Sykes Wilford. If you are going to see the hobby kept alive in America it will be due to Sykes.
Many of us independent retailers honestly don’t see much future in the hobby. Everyone loves to hate on the FDA, but the true tobacco-apocalypse turned out to be a rush acquisition due to multi-generational talent deterioration.
If its true… I did this for the fun of it and I feel blessed that I can shut the doors at any time. I’ll probably always keep a stack of my favorite stickers to flip through. After the new year, I’ll try to figure out how many months left of the keystone blends we have left. I’m going to try to see how much Burley Morning Pipe stuff I can get before they shut the doors and make it as long as I can, just because I can.
-Ken”

Interesting!

 

[bpinkstaff]

I don't worry about things that I can't control. Learn to cope and figure out how to make things work for you.

agree 100%

 

[fireground_piper]

Nothing productive comes from calling someone a loser -

Calling someone a loser and calling an attitude a loser attitude can be mutually exclusive statements. I’m sorry you had to write such a long post misunderstanding that!

 

[telescopes]

Calling someone a loser and calling an attitude a loser attitude can be mutually exclusive statements. I’m sorry you had to write such a long post misunderstanding that!

Semantics. Either you’re loose with the English language purposely or you don’t care how words and ideas juxtaposed to each other take on new meanings. Regardless, I enjoy your contributions. But I stand by my observations. Happy smokes.

 

[fireground_piper]

Semantics. Either you’re loose with the English language purposely or you don’t care how words and ideas juxtaposed to each other take on new meanings. Regardless, I enjoy your contributions. But I stand by my observations. Happy smokes.

“loser attitude”…..loser defines the type of attitude.

“Loser’s attitude”…..the attitude of a named loser.

A good person can have a bad attitude just like a bad person can have a good Attitude.

A successful person can have a loser attitude just like a loser can have a successful attitude.

These attitudes can be holistic or specific to an event.

In this event, it’s a loser attitude.

 

[woodsroad]

Loose the altitude, alright?
-Air traffic Control to Larry Walters,
July 2, 1982

 

[telescopes]

Losers give up just because somethings changes. The real blenders will find a way to continue doing what they do and not rely on Sutliff tobaccos.

I appreciate your referring now to the attitude of loser mentality . But the reply you gave in the post I’ve included here was the post I referred to. In essence it is referencing KBV as this what the thread is about. Perhaps not purposely, but in essence it does, intensionally or not. The only way to read it is that KBV is either not a real blender or he is one of the losers. Just my reading of it and others are free to read it differently. His press release is after all the subject of the thread. But, sure, maybe it is poor juxtaposition. I am sure my reading of it might be wrong.

 

[sablebrush52]

KBV was always a passion project and not a source of needed income. The owner expressed that to me many years ago. His other businesses did quite well for him. It’s not some sudden lame excuse, it’s a long time reality.
So just consider that he offered some great blends to smokers for the pleasure of doing it, and did so in a unique way which for him is no longer feasible.
More gratitude less attitude.

 

[yardjocky]

I think there is a lot of frustration here with everything going on in the industry right now. Things are changing and it's worrisome. Only thing we can do is smokem if gottem, and see what happens.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I find it ceaselessly amusing how some think that pipe smokers are a friendly lot. I remember old men smoking pipes when I was a small child as being some of the grouchiest, most disagreeable folks I can remember encountering.