James Upshall Pipes - A Discussion

[georged]

I remember talking with a high-end Charatan dealer about the, "Why are they all so big?" thing 30-odd years ago. His answer: "The shaper stops shaping as soon as the exterior is clear, because removing more material could expose a flaw."
Ever since, I wondered if some sort of cost/benefit analysis was ever performed on the assumption that the smoking public preferred a flawless outer surface on an over-sized, sometimes awkward pipe enough to offset the higher briar drop rate of making smaller and more elegant ones. Because I knew any number of smokers who avoided Charatans because of their size. People who said they would have bought them otherwise.
This thread is obviously my chance to get that answer. Ken? :?:

 

[buroak]

Right now I have scant time for reading threads on the forum, but this one has kept my attention. I own no Upshall pipes, yet the stories and insight keep me coming back for more. I suspect I am not the only "lurker" here, just another boy at the kids' table keenly observing the conversation amongst the grown-ups.

 

[sablebrush52]

This is easily the most interesting thread that I've read in months because I'm getting to hear from the people who were directly involved with the subject. It's such a huge pleasure to read Pete's clear and informative posts. You can't get better than straight from the source. Many thanks to both Pete and Ken for elevating this discussion. I hope that it gets preserved so that other interested people can easily access it.

 

[jvnshr]

I checked this thread when it was first created a month ago, then I was seeing it on latest discussions from time to time, but not checking, today I wanted to have a glance and I read the whole thread from very beginning to the end. What a great source of information. Thank you all for the contributions.

 

[lestrout]

Echoing Jesse's sentiments, this is an exceptionally informative and interesting thread, thanks to unique contributions from Ken, Pete and Al (among others). I had independently been trying to peer through the clouds to discern what had transpired post Dunhill and pre-Moty, and have gained a great deal of insight about the Upshalls and Tilsheads that I treasure.
hp

les

 

[kenbarnes]

Hi Guys,

Wow, so many recall buttons being pressed. First of all, I would like to say that I thought Barry was a far superior cutter of plateau. My idea at the time was that if I was involved in the cutting and the sales I could better coordinate what the pipe-smokers wanted at that time. Barry was so skilled at both cutting and turning in fact, all the processes. He could take any piece of briar and 'turn' it into something truly amazing. Unfortunately, it was not financially viable for Barry to complete each process on his own. He did so for that De la Concha special order and on a few other occasions. There are pipe-makers who do so, such as Ingo Garbe who works through each process himself-from cutting the block to wrapping the pipe. A production of 300 pipes a year has a drawback from the point of view of developing a prestigious name worldwide.

As far as dating Upshall pipes is concerned, we started production on the 7th of November 1978 (thanks Pete! it's all coming back to me now) and we had ordered a stamp from Bonzer (who made stamps for Dunhill, Charatan, Barling etc for many, many years) which was simply '78'. We made approximately 300 pipes that year (November & December) all stamped '78'including the Tilshead seconds. I remember selling the first Tilshead Pipes ever to a shop called Walter Thurgood in London Wall. They bought all I had (one gross). So, if you ever come across a JU or Tilshead with '78' on the shank, these were made by the two of us (much more input from Barry though!)

I will write more when I have re-read this thread and possibly made some notes on queries and points of discussion. Ken

 

[fordm60]

This thread is simply fascinating. Thank you Ken and Pete! Please do keep telling us your history. Blew me out of the water!

 

[fishingandpipes]

Ken, thanks again for commenting.
This is a fantastic thread.

 

[jguss]

As others have noted, a truly fabulous thread. Too often we admire the artifacts without knowing much about the people who made them and the businesses they created. Context is damn near everything; without it we miss much more than half the story.
Thanks Pete & Ken.

 

[neverbend]

The only time that I met Ken Barnes (Kennedy's dad) was at the 1980 RTDA trade show, where he was presenting Upshall with their first American agent, Marion Lezack. The quality and pricing of the Upshalls was inconsistent but there were gems and talent that impressed me.
I suspect that Ken may have the same experiencing that I did last year, when I revisited my time in the pipe industry and the memories flooded back in waves. Jon and Jesse, (good to see you both), and I had many email exchanges and they kindly tolerated my overlong missives. These were memories that had been stored and never anticipated to be recalled but I’m glad that they have been. For me, the memories returned, vivid and distinct only needing to be sorted by chronology.
The red "A" above, that I feel to have been made in 1986/7 was introduced in 1986 to fill the price point that the "P" had occupied and to increase yield. Within a few years the "A" became a walnut finish, with lesser grain than the "P", and the "R" was introduced in a darker red stain.

 

[kenbarnes]

I need some help as to when I left the company- I thought it was around 1989? I have never seen this red finish that is graded an "A". The "S" grade was the Upshall quality which was finished in this colour just below the "P" grade light walnut finish. The qualities that we were producing when I left were XX, X, E, G, B, P, S, some carved pieces, a process introduced to Upshall by P. Siegel, Tilshead natural and Tilshead dark Tan.
Ken

 

[papipeguy]

I'll echo the other here in this is a most interesting and fascinating discussion. It's like sitting in a lounge and listening to first hand accounts about the industry and that of James Upshall. Thank you, gentlemen for sharing your recollections with us.

 

[ssjones]

Here is a red stain "S". This was my first James Upshall pipe. I probably see 50 "P" grade Upshalls for every one "S". Perhaps less.


An ebay search for S grade pipes yielded:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGLISH-ESTATE-PIPE-JAMES-UPSHALL-S-GRADE-/371453114682?hash=item567c54b93a&nma=true&si=NMWvBlC7LPw4eMhnchcpV3qlXoI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Currently offered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/James-Upshall-S-TILSHEAD-ENGLAND-DUBLIN-EXCELLENT-ESTATE-/201470121693?hash=item2ee88e16dd:g:E~UAAOSwcdBWTnnJ

 

[ssjones]

In the search for S grade pipes, this "DS" pipe came up. The seller, calls it a "Designer Series". I find no reference to the DS grade on the Upshall website, not anywhere else. Thanks to Peter, I have some familiarity with the Empire Series, but this is a new one on me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-UPSHALL-DS-DESIGNER-SERIES-GRADE-PIPE-WITH-EXCEPTIONAL-GRAIN-/121752632600?hash=item1c5905bd18%3Ag%3AQNsAAOSw3ydV7Fb3&nma=true&si=NMWvBlC7LPw4eMhnchcpV3qlXoI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[georged]

Since the thread is starting to do dual duty as an Upshall pic archive, here's a rare one. A physically small (40 gram) XX grade piece:

 

[ssjones]

The XX is the top of the Upshall grade. Wow.(and George's picture is probably as close as I'll ever get to one!)

 

[kenbarnes]

What beautiful pipes! That XX is a peach. My first urge was to see all the way 'round it. Beautiful birdseye on the top.

 

[robski]

DS=Desmond Sautter - a high end tobacconists in Mayfair. Its not a grade of pipe - simply a stamping for pipes sold in his shop

 

[ssjones]

DS=Desmond Sautter - a high end tobacconists in Mayfair. Its not a grade of pipe - simply a stamping for pipes sold in his shop

That makes sense, but if so, this pipe would have no grade stamp? (I've never seen an ungraded, smooth James Upshall)

 

[robski]

I've seen a few DS pipes come up over the years, I cant remember whether they had a grade stamp or not. Perhaps Ken can enlighten us. We cant ask Desmond - passed away a few years ago.