James Upshall Pipes - A Discussion
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JamesUpshallPipeCo is still selling a few pipes on eBay, 8 listed, 7 of them James Upshall.
James Upshall Pipe Co eBay items 11-20-2015
Hope that you folks don't mind but I made some comments about the dates of these Upshalls and hope that Ken will add his comments.
Dating Upshalls can only be approximate since, at least through 1992, they never carried any nomenclature to indicate year of manufacture. Barry started marking pipes marked with 'FH' and Size# around ~1990 (bad idea). I gave Upshall my New Hermes engraver in 1983 (you're welcome Ken :D), so extra nomenclature could have been added at any time after that.
This pipe is listed as a 1982 but I think that it was made later.
The left side nomenclature (logo, FH and size) all appear to have been engraved at the same time with the same depth and coloration of the revealed briar that is very fresh, (under the engraving). An engraved logo means 1983 or later, the FH/Size 1990 or later (if they were done at the same time).
The "A" (below) shows an earlier logo that had the "FH" and "5" added later. The exposed briar is darker under the logo compared to the FH and 5.
Ken made a couple of changes, ~1984/5, to the walnut staining and finishing (that I loved) on the "P" and "B" grades to make the grain pop (more dynamic). Earlier Upshalls tend to have less dynamic grain (flat).
I think that the "A" (red pipe) may be the oldest of this lot, 1986/7.
What do you think Ken?
James Upshall Pipe Co eBay items 11-20-2015
Hope that you folks don't mind but I made some comments about the dates of these Upshalls and hope that Ken will add his comments.
Dating Upshalls can only be approximate since, at least through 1992, they never carried any nomenclature to indicate year of manufacture. Barry started marking pipes marked with 'FH' and Size# around ~1990 (bad idea). I gave Upshall my New Hermes engraver in 1983 (you're welcome Ken :D), so extra nomenclature could have been added at any time after that.
This pipe is listed as a 1982 but I think that it was made later.
The left side nomenclature (logo, FH and size) all appear to have been engraved at the same time with the same depth and coloration of the revealed briar that is very fresh, (under the engraving). An engraved logo means 1983 or later, the FH/Size 1990 or later (if they were done at the same time).
The "A" (below) shows an earlier logo that had the "FH" and "5" added later. The exposed briar is darker under the logo compared to the FH and 5.
Ken made a couple of changes, ~1984/5, to the walnut staining and finishing (that I loved) on the "P" and "B" grades to make the grain pop (more dynamic). Earlier Upshalls tend to have less dynamic grain (flat).
I think that the "A" (red pipe) may be the oldest of this lot, 1986/7.
What do you think Ken?
SSJones said...
The 1982 bent "B" I suspect was made in 1990 or a bit later, so it's the worst offender but as a group he's not far off.
To be fair Al, the dates listed probably aren't egregiously off. I can usually date post-transition Barlings within a 2 year window and I just pick a year and call it that. If I'm wrong it's only off by a year and that really has no meaning.
The 1982 bent "B" I suspect was made in 1990 or a bit later, so it's the worst offender but as a group he's not far off.
"From what I hear Moty has tarnished the "PRESTIGE" of the Upshall brand. The Barnes and Jones era were the "golden years" of the Upshall company"
Thats why I was wondering if Barry was actually making pipes for the past 10 years or if Moty was just claiming it.
Thats why I was wondering if Barry was actually making pipes for the past 10 years or if Moty was just claiming it.
This outstanding and fascinating thread motivated my login (not just read as usual) to thank all contributors. This thread is the potential of special interest forum realized. Thanks all!
SSJones said...
Agreed, the dates shouldn't be stated as absolute.
BriarDan said...
Without hubris, the best Upshalls were made after Marble Arch began importing them, in late 1982, through Ken's departure in 1989. This era was concurrent with Ken's strong relationship with Otto Braun, who controlled much of the world's supply, that insured that Upshall had the best briar. Without Ken, Barry was stretched since he had to Cut, Turn and run the factory and business. It's unlikely that Moty could have sourced briar of the quality that Ken used but, as long as Barry Jones was involved, the decline in Upshall wasn't as egregious as many other storied companies. You could start with the changeover to machines in the 1930s through Barling's abdication and then some.
Tarheel1 said...
The lack of Tilsheads indicates that what Ken deemed a 2nd were carved into Upshall firsts. This is actually a prudent business move and it's done by most (all) pipe makers, especially when a pipe maker lacks the skill to make flawless smooths (not in Barry's case and Moty sold many new smooths). There were perhaps 4 test carved pipes made, at my request, but Ken refused to reduce the quality of his product despite the certain financial benefit. When I asked, Barry immediately made a carve that would have made Gigi Radice blush.
Upshall, Charatan and Barling were the leading 'English Freehand' makers, thus the Upshall motto, "the Tradition continues...". English Freehand process requires Cutter, Turner, Shapers (sanders) and Finishers in sequence and in level of skill. To be sure, all steps require skilled craftsmen.
To understand the skill of a pipe maker, look at the finished pipe. The hardest pipe to produce is a smooth, classically shaped straight grain. Grain isn't required to make a good smoking pipe but it can indicate the quality of briar used and it's not just a cosmetic device. How well the grain is expressed is an indication of the Cutter's skill.
The English Freehand Turner uses a lathe to fully establish the shape of the bowl and shank while removing flaws as they go ('running flaws'). When Ken was Cutting he unburdened Barry to Turn at the highest level. From Cutter to finisher, each step is important and will address keeping the pipe flawless.
All pipes are made as a smooth but when they have flaws, most are sandblasted or carved, (in whole or part) that adds an additional process (and cost). During Ken's tenure all pipes were smooth and pipes with flaws, true seconds, were offered as a Tilshead. You can tell a pipe maker's ability to 'run flaws' by their yield of completely smooth pipes and it appears to be a dying art.
Agreed, the dates shouldn't be stated as absolute.
BriarDan said...
Without hubris, the best Upshalls were made after Marble Arch began importing them, in late 1982, through Ken's departure in 1989. This era was concurrent with Ken's strong relationship with Otto Braun, who controlled much of the world's supply, that insured that Upshall had the best briar. Without Ken, Barry was stretched since he had to Cut, Turn and run the factory and business. It's unlikely that Moty could have sourced briar of the quality that Ken used but, as long as Barry Jones was involved, the decline in Upshall wasn't as egregious as many other storied companies. You could start with the changeover to machines in the 1930s through Barling's abdication and then some.
Tarheel1 said...
My first-hand knowledge ended in 1992 but Barry and his sons continued to make pipes and based on what I've seen I feel that they were involved in making them for Moty. The current lack of pipes from Moty is consistent with Barry's retirement.
The lack of Tilsheads indicates that what Ken deemed a 2nd were carved into Upshall firsts. This is actually a prudent business move and it's done by most (all) pipe makers, especially when a pipe maker lacks the skill to make flawless smooths (not in Barry's case and Moty sold many new smooths). There were perhaps 4 test carved pipes made, at my request, but Ken refused to reduce the quality of his product despite the certain financial benefit. When I asked, Barry immediately made a carve that would have made Gigi Radice blush.
Upshall, Charatan and Barling were the leading 'English Freehand' makers, thus the Upshall motto, "the Tradition continues...". English Freehand process requires Cutter, Turner, Shapers (sanders) and Finishers in sequence and in level of skill. To be sure, all steps require skilled craftsmen.
To understand the skill of a pipe maker, look at the finished pipe. The hardest pipe to produce is a smooth, classically shaped straight grain. Grain isn't required to make a good smoking pipe but it can indicate the quality of briar used and it's not just a cosmetic device. How well the grain is expressed is an indication of the Cutter's skill.
The English Freehand Turner uses a lathe to fully establish the shape of the bowl and shank while removing flaws as they go ('running flaws'). When Ken was Cutting he unburdened Barry to Turn at the highest level. From Cutter to finisher, each step is important and will address keeping the pipe flawless.
All pipes are made as a smooth but when they have flaws, most are sandblasted or carved, (in whole or part) that adds an additional process (and cost). During Ken's tenure all pipes were smooth and pipes with flaws, true seconds, were offered as a Tilshead. You can tell a pipe maker's ability to 'run flaws' by their yield of completely smooth pipes and it appears to be a dying art.
Thanks for the reply. It just sucks that I have been trying to get a bespoke pipe since 2005 with no results. I was always getting from Moty or Karen that he was on Vacation and could not make anything. I really would have liked to have one in my collection. I guess I can try and get a bent billiard or straight billiard as they seem to have them, but a Bent Bulldog group 5 with a tapered stem was what I wanted.
Since denholrl posted 5 pipes on eBay the prices will likely drop on the web for some time. Eventually the prices will increase with the lack of offering. That being said, his offerings were quite impressive!
Congratulations Walter, it's a beautiful pipe, enjoy it and please let us know how it smokes.
I argued that your pipe was a "G" because it was beautifully rendered (graceful and not Charatan bulky) with it's grain running top to bottom (despite it's size) and straight around most of the bowl.
Nice grab Walt!
A good point Pete. The bulkiness of Charatans is one reason they are not a British maker that I collect (I have one). James Upshall shapes are somewhat tempered in size and although still large pipes, they appeal to my sensibilities better. Some of the B shapes are downright petite.
SSJones said...
All English Freehand makers, including Barling, reduced or cut-down pipes as flaws dictated shape change to be necessary. Upshall and Chararan did this with some latitude while Barling, who made shapes based on a numbered chart, had less flexibility. Barling craftsmen knew now to alter pipes to fit their shape chart. The most obvious example is a billiard being topped to become a pot but, especially with Barling, their skill in this regard was an art form.
The 'clunky' Charatans are more common in the Lane Era. As a business practice, ending shape alteration once a bowl is clean, makes some sense because you won't continue to uncover flaws. It's also going to be the largest pipe that can be made. Herman Lane and I discussed this (Switzerland, 1986), specifically relating to Upshall that he felt were good but dainty pipes. Herman felt that larger, more fantastic pipes sell, and they did, but we found that the more refined pipes had a broader appeal. From a purist perspective, Herman took the easier path and while I understand his point of view, I'd never associate dainty with Upshall.
Ken was the most open minded of my pipe makers, readily accepting criticism and new ideas and implementing them. Ken and I worked to make the Upshalls more graceful despite the potential of uncovering flaws during process. By ~1984, Barry felt that Upshall had surpassed Lane Era Charatan and was equal or superior to pipes made in the Reuben Charatan Era and Upshall did improve over the following years.
Al, very perceptive about the smaller "B"s. Size did factor into grading, at least to some degree.
A Ken Cutting story:
Lionel Melendi, of De La Concha (NYC), was the largest Upshall dealer in the US (and probably the world) selling ~500 a year. He asked us for a donation to be auctioned at a charity event and when I told Ken he was eager to help. We agreed to make a straight grain billiard with a gold band (L&JS) in a presentation box.
Ken sifted through 20 or so large blocks of briar, digging into flaws, (to see how deep they ran) with a knife (like a clam shucker) and wetting their sides to see their grain.
"Right mate! This one will make a little corker with perfect straight grain! I can see it." It was a big block that could have made 2 large pipes for other pipe makers.
The table saw started and chips flew as Ken kept examining and turning the block, cutting at different angles and the briar kept shrinking. A couple of deep cuts finished the shaped ebauchon, only slightly larger than a Dunhill group 6. Ken Cut the block in a scant few minutes.
Barry took over on the lathe, turning away flaws and scooping out the tobacco chamber. Normally, Barry would have passed the pipe to a Shaper but he worked it through the finishing stages himself, including a hand-cut, rod vulcanite stem. Red backing followed by a natural stain and the pipe was finished. It was only a Dunhill group 5 in size but it was every bit the 'corker' that Ken said it would be, an obvious (to me) "X" grade and perhaps a "XX" since it was nearly a 360 degree straight grain billiard that ran from rim to heel. Ken felt that it was too small to be an "X" and that it wasn't completely a 360 straight grain and he'd only put the Upshall name on the pipe if it were marked as an "E" (one grade below the "X"), and so it was marked.
Les Wood fitted the band and I took the pipe back to the States, put it into a presentation box and gave it to Lionel. It sold for $550 in 1986.
Ken, it was an "X" then and still is, but I relate the story, partially, to illustrate that size did matter in grading. More importantly, it shows Ken's ability to see a (near) perfect pipe, of a specific shape, inside a massive block of briar and then his skill to produce it.
Handmades are a vastly different process from machine made pipes. The machine spits out the bowls and you get a range of quality and work from there. Hand makers, (English Freehand school such as Upshall and Charatan), evolve the shape while they attempt to get the bowl clean. The primary difference between the English and Danish Freehand schools is that the English begin with an intended shape and work toward that goal while the Danes let the flaws dictate shape.
All English Freehand makers, including Barling, reduced or cut-down pipes as flaws dictated shape change to be necessary. Upshall and Chararan did this with some latitude while Barling, who made shapes based on a numbered chart, had less flexibility. Barling craftsmen knew now to alter pipes to fit their shape chart. The most obvious example is a billiard being topped to become a pot but, especially with Barling, their skill in this regard was an art form.
The 'clunky' Charatans are more common in the Lane Era. As a business practice, ending shape alteration once a bowl is clean, makes some sense because you won't continue to uncover flaws. It's also going to be the largest pipe that can be made. Herman Lane and I discussed this (Switzerland, 1986), specifically relating to Upshall that he felt were good but dainty pipes. Herman felt that larger, more fantastic pipes sell, and they did, but we found that the more refined pipes had a broader appeal. From a purist perspective, Herman took the easier path and while I understand his point of view, I'd never associate dainty with Upshall.
Ken was the most open minded of my pipe makers, readily accepting criticism and new ideas and implementing them. Ken and I worked to make the Upshalls more graceful despite the potential of uncovering flaws during process. By ~1984, Barry felt that Upshall had surpassed Lane Era Charatan and was equal or superior to pipes made in the Reuben Charatan Era and Upshall did improve over the following years.
Al, very perceptive about the smaller "B"s. Size did factor into grading, at least to some degree.
A Ken Cutting story:
Lionel Melendi, of De La Concha (NYC), was the largest Upshall dealer in the US (and probably the world) selling ~500 a year. He asked us for a donation to be auctioned at a charity event and when I told Ken he was eager to help. We agreed to make a straight grain billiard with a gold band (L&JS) in a presentation box.
Ken sifted through 20 or so large blocks of briar, digging into flaws, (to see how deep they ran) with a knife (like a clam shucker) and wetting their sides to see their grain.
"Right mate! This one will make a little corker with perfect straight grain! I can see it." It was a big block that could have made 2 large pipes for other pipe makers.
The table saw started and chips flew as Ken kept examining and turning the block, cutting at different angles and the briar kept shrinking. A couple of deep cuts finished the shaped ebauchon, only slightly larger than a Dunhill group 6. Ken Cut the block in a scant few minutes.
Barry took over on the lathe, turning away flaws and scooping out the tobacco chamber. Normally, Barry would have passed the pipe to a Shaper but he worked it through the finishing stages himself, including a hand-cut, rod vulcanite stem. Red backing followed by a natural stain and the pipe was finished. It was only a Dunhill group 5 in size but it was every bit the 'corker' that Ken said it would be, an obvious (to me) "X" grade and perhaps a "XX" since it was nearly a 360 degree straight grain billiard that ran from rim to heel. Ken felt that it was too small to be an "X" and that it wasn't completely a 360 straight grain and he'd only put the Upshall name on the pipe if it were marked as an "E" (one grade below the "X"), and so it was marked.
Les Wood fitted the band and I took the pipe back to the States, put it into a presentation box and gave it to Lionel. It sold for $550 in 1986.
Ken, it was an "X" then and still is, but I relate the story, partially, to illustrate that size did matter in grading. More importantly, it shows Ken's ability to see a (near) perfect pipe, of a specific shape, inside a massive block of briar and then his skill to produce it.
That makes perfect business sense. I've never heard such a brilliant explanation about pipe size and grading. Current Castello pipes frustrate me because they only seem concerned in making/selling larger pipe (G, GG, etc.). I suppose a similar business perspective is employed. Most of my Upshall collection could hardly be called "dainty!" My S and B grades are less than 50 grams but the P's all approach 90+ grams.