Jesse you got me chuckling, never thought about pancakes in pipe after reading man smoking shit, real shit in his pipe. Thanks for the laugh you old snob you.HeHe
Is Price A Good Indication of Quality?
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This all seems like talk that I remember back in the day when frat boys justified paying $60 for a Polo shirt. Total BS that a Polo is any better than any other collared short sleeve.
So far, no one has hit the nail on the head.
Price is bullcrap for comparing pipes.
I have several Grabows that rival the most expensive Savinellis. Nothing wrong with the way they smoke at all. They use fantastic briar, and in reading an interview with the renown briar collector in Italy, Grabow buys only the best, just like many of the other pipe companies.
Now, what makes a difference in the prices? You can buy Nording Valhalla for about $40-$80. Savinelli makes a bunch of cheap pipes. The reason some great smokers are cheaper is that they are machine made. CAD cutters and various other machines make it possible to crank out hundreds of pipes a day. This brings cost down so that they can offer cheaper pipes. These are the Henry Fords of the pipe world.
Then there are pipes made from start to finish by one man. Sometimes these pipe makers have a staff that helps, which eventually raises production and lowers costs. Then there are pipes like this that don't lower cost, because their name allows them to continue making production pipes at higher prices (cough, cough, Dunhill) and people will still buy them for that Polo shirt thing I mentioned.
And, then you have the artisan pipe makers who do everything themself and really try to be innovative with their designs and engineering. These are the highest priced pipes, usually.
Get whatever you want. A Grabow will smokes well as a Savinelli or a Nording. Except Nording will go ahead and stamp handmade on a production pipe, even if it was just painted with lacquer by hand. Every pipe is a good one, once you learn how it wants to be smoked. It's a hunk of wood with two holes. A company would have to be complete morons to mess that up (cough, cough, Peterson, cough, cough)
Price is merely what it takes to make a living at making pipes, pending how they are made and how fast.
So far, no one has hit the nail on the head.
Price is bullcrap for comparing pipes.
I have several Grabows that rival the most expensive Savinellis. Nothing wrong with the way they smoke at all. They use fantastic briar, and in reading an interview with the renown briar collector in Italy, Grabow buys only the best, just like many of the other pipe companies.
Now, what makes a difference in the prices? You can buy Nording Valhalla for about $40-$80. Savinelli makes a bunch of cheap pipes. The reason some great smokers are cheaper is that they are machine made. CAD cutters and various other machines make it possible to crank out hundreds of pipes a day. This brings cost down so that they can offer cheaper pipes. These are the Henry Fords of the pipe world.
Then there are pipes made from start to finish by one man. Sometimes these pipe makers have a staff that helps, which eventually raises production and lowers costs. Then there are pipes like this that don't lower cost, because their name allows them to continue making production pipes at higher prices (cough, cough, Dunhill) and people will still buy them for that Polo shirt thing I mentioned.
And, then you have the artisan pipe makers who do everything themself and really try to be innovative with their designs and engineering. These are the highest priced pipes, usually.
Get whatever you want. A Grabow will smokes well as a Savinelli or a Nording. Except Nording will go ahead and stamp handmade on a production pipe, even if it was just painted with lacquer by hand. Every pipe is a good one, once you learn how it wants to be smoked. It's a hunk of wood with two holes. A company would have to be complete morons to mess that up (cough, cough, Peterson, cough, cough)
Price is merely what it takes to make a living at making pipes, pending how they are made and how fast.
This is a controversial topic. I buy both estate and new pipes but only bought one pricy new pipe in 2013, the AeroBilliard. I recently bought a new Chris Askwith but was able to get a 20% discount on it. I certainly will buy more pipes this year, both estate and new, but in the second decade of pipe smoking I have become more frugal. Pipes that get my attention are the right size and have two holes and sell for $25.00 or less
. Seriously. There are many many choices of inexpensive pipes out there that will deliver a good smoke. I tire of those who are ready to pronounce their pipes as "great smokers" as to me smoking technique trumps the pipe's performance. And given the number of pipes touted as great smokers, I wonder where all the mediocre pipe have gone? If you know what you are doing you can buy very inexpensive pipes from trusted sellers on ebay that will serve you very well. While I believe that artisan pipes smoke better than factory pipes, I think it is safe to say that the average Savinelli/Peterson/Stanwell smokes equally well in most respects. I'm not able to identify that final 10 or 15% of quality that artisan pipes deliver. I buy cheap pipes almost exclusively.
. Seriously. There are many many choices of inexpensive pipes out there that will deliver a good smoke. I tire of those who are ready to pronounce their pipes as "great smokers" as to me smoking technique trumps the pipe's performance. And given the number of pipes touted as great smokers, I wonder where all the mediocre pipe have gone? If you know what you are doing you can buy very inexpensive pipes from trusted sellers on ebay that will serve you very well. While I believe that artisan pipes smoke better than factory pipes, I think it is safe to say that the average Savinelli/Peterson/Stanwell smokes equally well in most respects. I'm not able to identify that final 10 or 15% of quality that artisan pipes deliver. I buy cheap pipes almost exclusively.
Everybody has a take on this subject and they are mostly pretty much the same.
My list of issues to consider with a pipe sort of depends on whether it is new or "estate", and then:
1. How does it feel in the hand - I think this is very important since a significant part of the smoking experience is tactile.
2. How hot does the pipe get during the entire smoke - I find that the middle third tends to be the hottest and that is the stage that I pay the most attention to this factor.
3. How much does the pipe gurgle during the smoke - Again, the middle third seems to me to be the best stage to determine this.
4. How well does the pipe maintain (or achieve) a pleasant tasting smoke - some get better with time, others not so much.
5. What shape do you prefer - You will undoubtedly (and may already be well on your way to achieving) accumulate lots of different shapes; straight, full bent and everything in between, egg, volcano, etc, and the ubiquitous billiard. My own preference is for 1/4 bent apple, about 5.5 inches (14 cm) long.
6. What finish do you like - Smooth, rusticated, sandblast, etc. - some people cannot stand rusticated.
7. How long do you intend to smoke this particular bowel - I have pipes that I separate into three times: 20 minutes, 45 minutes and longer. This is usually, but not always, a function of the bowel size. The several pipes that I have that are longer than 45 minutes are rather clunky in the hand so get in the rotation rarely or only for special occasions.
8. And, the all important factor, how do you enjoy the smoking experience - This is rather subjective and cumulative but important. My best smoker (an old Cellini - 20 minute variety) is not my favorite pipe. A Brebbia First Rocciata Plum Author (602) is my favorite; mostly for the feel, the dry smoke, the attractive appearance and the 45 minute smoking time.
9. Price is the last of my criteria, not so much because I have buckets of money to spend (my sweet spot is $80-120 and I have few that out price that range) but the reliability of the manufacturer, the relative closeness to the above criteria and the deal I can get on the pipe (pipe shop, on-line stores or eBay). I have VERY few new pipes in my collection; I like to restore the estate pipes to find a diamond in the coal lump.
Hope this helps; it is just my personal take - IMHO, if you will.
Spencer
My list of issues to consider with a pipe sort of depends on whether it is new or "estate", and then:
1. How does it feel in the hand - I think this is very important since a significant part of the smoking experience is tactile.
2. How hot does the pipe get during the entire smoke - I find that the middle third tends to be the hottest and that is the stage that I pay the most attention to this factor.
3. How much does the pipe gurgle during the smoke - Again, the middle third seems to me to be the best stage to determine this.
4. How well does the pipe maintain (or achieve) a pleasant tasting smoke - some get better with time, others not so much.
5. What shape do you prefer - You will undoubtedly (and may already be well on your way to achieving) accumulate lots of different shapes; straight, full bent and everything in between, egg, volcano, etc, and the ubiquitous billiard. My own preference is for 1/4 bent apple, about 5.5 inches (14 cm) long.
6. What finish do you like - Smooth, rusticated, sandblast, etc. - some people cannot stand rusticated.
7. How long do you intend to smoke this particular bowel - I have pipes that I separate into three times: 20 minutes, 45 minutes and longer. This is usually, but not always, a function of the bowel size. The several pipes that I have that are longer than 45 minutes are rather clunky in the hand so get in the rotation rarely or only for special occasions.
8. And, the all important factor, how do you enjoy the smoking experience - This is rather subjective and cumulative but important. My best smoker (an old Cellini - 20 minute variety) is not my favorite pipe. A Brebbia First Rocciata Plum Author (602) is my favorite; mostly for the feel, the dry smoke, the attractive appearance and the 45 minute smoking time.
9. Price is the last of my criteria, not so much because I have buckets of money to spend (my sweet spot is $80-120 and I have few that out price that range) but the reliability of the manufacturer, the relative closeness to the above criteria and the deal I can get on the pipe (pipe shop, on-line stores or eBay). I have VERY few new pipes in my collection; I like to restore the estate pipes to find a diamond in the coal lump.
Hope this helps; it is just my personal take - IMHO, if you will.
Spencer
Hell no! If that was the case, then corn cob pipes would not have survived this long. I admit I do have about 3 high grade pipes, and they are great to collect, but in my experience and OPINION a MM country gentleman is still one of the best smokers out there.
-Lateef
-Lateef
brudnod - Very nice summary of what makes a good pipe/smoke. I really appreciate it. What you and everyone else has said makes a lot of sense to me. The more I smoke, the easier and more relaxing/enjoyable the experience becomes. My ONLY REGRET is that I didn't take pipe smoking sooner!
kalvort - excellent point regarding cobs. Since an MM Country Gent is all I've smoked so far, I have nothing with which to compare. My first 2 briars were shipped out this morning so I imagine I'll get to try them out within a week or so... really looking forward to it!
Again, thanks to all for contributing thoughts and opinions!
kalvort - excellent point regarding cobs. Since an MM Country Gent is all I've smoked so far, I have nothing with which to compare. My first 2 briars were shipped out this morning so I imagine I'll get to try them out within a week or so... really looking forward to it!
Again, thanks to all for contributing thoughts and opinions!
On a side note, I have read many posts that indicate a bowl lasts them about an hour. I don't think I'm smoking fast and my bowl doesn't get real hot... no bite either... but a bowl in the MM Cob usually only lasts about 30-40 minutes for me. Any thoughts?
Maybe one day I will learn to smoke better and have to buy a better pipe. :wink:
But for right now my Dr Grabow seems to do the job.
Sure seems like what I smoke in them makes more difference than what pipe I'm using.
Those are nice looking pipes I am sure you will like them.(I really like the bent one)
But for right now my Dr Grabow seems to do the job.
Sure seems like what I smoke in them makes more difference than what pipe I'm using.
Those are nice looking pipes I am sure you will like them.(I really like the bent one)
When I first saw this thread pop up, I figured it would stop after a single "Yes" reply!
"Is price a good indication of quality?"
Yes.
It's not the only indication of quality. And, in many cases, it may not even be the most significant indicator of quality. But is it a good indicator? Absolutely. And I think that goes for tobaccos as well as pipes.
With pipes, I think there's a significant difference in quality between a $40 pipe and a $100+ pipe. After that, you start to pay for things that go beyond basic smokability: briar quality, attractiveness/consistency of grain, handwork, brand name, and availability. And to me, once you move much beyond $250 for a pipe, you're paying entirely for things that have virtually no impact on the smoking quality of a pipe. But my $250 pipe smokes noticeably better than my $150 pipes, which smoke noticeably better than my $50 pipes.
Bob
"Is price a good indication of quality?"
Yes.
It's not the only indication of quality. And, in many cases, it may not even be the most significant indicator of quality. But is it a good indicator? Absolutely. And I think that goes for tobaccos as well as pipes.
With pipes, I think there's a significant difference in quality between a $40 pipe and a $100+ pipe. After that, you start to pay for things that go beyond basic smokability: briar quality, attractiveness/consistency of grain, handwork, brand name, and availability. And to me, once you move much beyond $250 for a pipe, you're paying entirely for things that have virtually no impact on the smoking quality of a pipe. But my $250 pipe smokes noticeably better than my $150 pipes, which smoke noticeably better than my $50 pipes.
Bob
And my $2 Ehrlich smokes as well as my $800 Barling Quaint, or any of my other pipes. I've experienced no correlation between price and quality. Excellent pipes turn up at all price levels, as do stinkers. Every maker has good and bad product.
So price as a good indicator? No. Brand as an indicator might be better, but variation abounds.
It takes variety to make a horse race.
Bunk. I've never seen a member look down their nose at what someone has paid for a pipe, I don't care if it's a MM Cob or a Dunhill. A new pipe is cause for celebration.
Depends on the cob model - MM makes a couple of different bowl sizes, and the smaller ones (Pony Express size) are about a 30-45 minute smoke for me, while the larger bowls (Diplomat, Washington) go an hour or so - and my Country Gentleman is generally good for at least an hour and a half!
Apatim -- If you can't tell, folks feel strongly about this one.
I find myself in sablebrush's camp. Brand/maker is an indicator of quality. Pricing can be all over the map, both for retail price of new pipes, and in the estate market where the ultimate deals can be found. Others have covered "what makes a great pipe", so what I would encourage you to do is to explore different pipe shapes, sizes, weights and bowl-sizes before you start spending serious money on pipes.
Go out and buy some estate pipes at reasonable prices to find out whether you like a bulldog or a Canadian, a straight or a bent, and really spend some time finding the bit shape that you like. Are you a clencher or not? Learning this before you start commissioning pipes from artisan makers, or start chasing your "white whale" pipes will help make sure you spend your hard won $$ on the pipes that mean the most to you.
Getting a rotation of different shapes/sizes/weights/bits and learning which you love and which you hate will be huge in helping you build a collection you're proud of; regardless of whether you're spending $5 or $1000 per pipe.
Welcome aboard pal, it's a fun group to be a part of.
-- Pat
I find myself in sablebrush's camp. Brand/maker is an indicator of quality. Pricing can be all over the map, both for retail price of new pipes, and in the estate market where the ultimate deals can be found. Others have covered "what makes a great pipe", so what I would encourage you to do is to explore different pipe shapes, sizes, weights and bowl-sizes before you start spending serious money on pipes.
Go out and buy some estate pipes at reasonable prices to find out whether you like a bulldog or a Canadian, a straight or a bent, and really spend some time finding the bit shape that you like. Are you a clencher or not? Learning this before you start commissioning pipes from artisan makers, or start chasing your "white whale" pipes will help make sure you spend your hard won $$ on the pipes that mean the most to you.
Getting a rotation of different shapes/sizes/weights/bits and learning which you love and which you hate will be huge in helping you build a collection you're proud of; regardless of whether you're spending $5 or $1000 per pipe.
Welcome aboard pal, it's a fun group to be a part of.
-- Pat
The fact that you can get a fine smoking pipe at a low price is the joy of the hunt, but you have to be lucky
or work for it by shopping and studying quite a bit, and being a little lucky besides. With increased price,
you get into other things -- the pleasure of owning a handmade, one-of-a-kind pipe, some more unusual
and/or higher quality materials, a trusted name, some rare and perfected shaping, and just pure art. For
someone who has a rotation of four or five pipes, and would like to own twenty or more, I'd suggest they
might want to decide if they want to hunt for low-medium price good smokers, or accumulate pipes more
slowly and have a more upscale stable. Both are good ways to go. There's a lot of pride in being able to
suss out those really fine smoking pipes for $50, and also in having a group of pipes that are also works
of art that have cost a lot.
or work for it by shopping and studying quite a bit, and being a little lucky besides. With increased price,
you get into other things -- the pleasure of owning a handmade, one-of-a-kind pipe, some more unusual
and/or higher quality materials, a trusted name, some rare and perfected shaping, and just pure art. For
someone who has a rotation of four or five pipes, and would like to own twenty or more, I'd suggest they
might want to decide if they want to hunt for low-medium price good smokers, or accumulate pipes more
slowly and have a more upscale stable. Both are good ways to go. There's a lot of pride in being able to
suss out those really fine smoking pipes for $50, and also in having a group of pipes that are also works
of art that have cost a lot.
I have a roma that I love... And it was my first pipe ever, and at a store, including markup, wasn't even 50 bucks. It's a little workhorse!
On the same note, I have a randy wiley feather carved my wife got me that ran her around 200 and I love it to...
On the same note, I have a randy wiley feather carved my wife got me that ran her around 200 and I love it to...
Price used to be an indication of quality but it is no longer in my opinion. I would say from the 1960's and prior workers used to take pride in their work and do a great job and produce a great product.
Now it seems companies are only concerned with profit rather than a quality product. Think about all the jobs that are outsourced. That is to make more profit not to support our economy. When a person leaves a position in most time their responsibilities are divided up between the remaining workers and those workers get no pay increase. There again making more profit for a company at the expense of the workers.
An artisan pipe maker will still take pride in their work as they desire to produce a quality pipe and attract additional clients via recommendations from current clients.
These are my thoughts and opinions.
Doug
Now it seems companies are only concerned with profit rather than a quality product. Think about all the jobs that are outsourced. That is to make more profit not to support our economy. When a person leaves a position in most time their responsibilities are divided up between the remaining workers and those workers get no pay increase. There again making more profit for a company at the expense of the workers.
An artisan pipe maker will still take pride in their work as they desire to produce a quality pipe and attract additional clients via recommendations from current clients.
These are my thoughts and opinions.
Doug
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