Is Price A Good Indication of Quality?

[northernneil]

The thing you are going to run into is briar is a natural product that is affected by many natural components. It is possible to get a $500 pipe that smoke like crap, and a $20 pipe that smokes sublime. So it is not a written rule that you will get a better pipe if you invest more money. Nonetheless, the odds are more in your favor if you spend a little more.
In the dollar range you are looking at, I would recommend either Chacom or Sebastian Beo. They are both manufactrued in St. Claude France, the birth place of the Briar Pipe, and are tremendous smokers for their price.
Good luck in the hunt.

 

[ravkesef]

I bought a Sebastian Beo for $85 and ended up with a close to perfect smoker.

 

[plateauguy]

Price doesn't equal quality. Look at the MM cobs - inexpensive and always a good smoke. I'm a believer in buying good quality briar regardless of name. Savinelli is a very nice machine made pipe, Petersons have had quality issues for some (I own several and have not had any problems). Falcons are a unique metal pipe with interchangeable briar bowls - easy to clean and to travel with if you own several bowls (estates are better quality than the newer ones).
If you want a good briar estate pipe, try a Kaywoodie (1930 - 1960's). Yes, you've got the clean up (don't forget the shank) but early Kaywoodies have better quality briar than today's pipes. You can usually pick them up under $50.00 depending on age and condition - look for Super Grain, Drinkless, Relief Grain or Flame Grain in the description. I like the 4 hole stingers, but also have 3 hole stinger pipes. I also have a couple of older (1960's) Dr. Grabows and have found them to be very good pipes.
Good Luck, and remember, you can always sell it - just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it's not exactly what someone else has been looking for.

 

[sfsteves]

Price is more a factor of supply and demand ... there ARE a great many high quality pipes that don't command high prices because the demand for them isn't all that high ... a beautiful, hand-crafted artisanal pipe commands it's high price most often because it's a one-off, not because it's an intrinsically better pipe ...
You're right in your view that there is a sort of beauty in the eye of the beholder factor (not exactly your words, I know) ... yes, individual taste DOES make a difference ... but cheap (not necessarily inexpensive) crap pipes are, at the end of the day, still crap, irrespective of their price.
This is a quandary I went through in the 70s after I paid $100 for a good pipe and quickly saw how much MORE I could spend if I chose to do so ... even then, there was no shortage of pipes being offered at far higher prices than my little ol' $100 Ben Wade ... oddly enough, when adjusted for inflation, that $100 would be somewhat north of $550 today, an amount I would NEVER pay for any pipe because I've learned that there are too many good ones on the market for far less ...
I commend your attention to the advise of smokeybear ... his comments above express quite well everything I could possibly hope to communicate on the subject ....

 

[northernneil]

I know a lot of people here love estate pipes, but I don't think they are quite as good, as a whole, as they are made out to be. To me, pipes are a very personal thing. I wouldn't share a toothbrush, so why should I share a pipe. And the blanket statment that the briar in estate pipes is better than the briar in modern pipes is just not true. Yes, estate pipes have the luxury of being broken in, but that does not mean that it used better briar. In fact, many experienced pipe smoker believe that modern day pipes use a very high quality of briar, and near perfect drilling. And, with a new pipe you know how it has been treated, and there is no concern of ghosting from that goopy aromatic tobacco enjoyed by the previous owner.
There is no question that estate pipes are a great value, but I do not think they are for the novice. Just sanitizing the pipe so it is safe to smoke is something the majority of people think they know how to do, but really do not. If you really want to go the estate pipe route, try buying from a reputable dealer such as Smokingpipes.com or Briar Blues. The pipes sold through these sites have been professionally cleaned.

 

[warren]

If you are referring to workmanship, fit and fittings, most assuredly price is a good measure. "You get what you pay for," is still a reasonably valid adage.
If you are referring to how well the pipe smokes, I would say that price is still a consideration but, there are many pipes of lesser price that are prized by their owners as great smokers.
A sterling cachet and high price are certainly indicators that the pipe may be of better than average quality and smoke well, but certainly not a guarantee.

 

[sfsteves]

northernneil said:

... the blanket statement that the briar in estate pipes

is better than the briar in modern pipes is just not true.

I don't think ANY blanket statement is true ... there is plenty of very high quality briar being used today in new pipes, but it's spendy ... estate pipes aren't necessarily made from high quality briar, but a great many were and those pipes will be far less expensive than a new pipe of comparable quality ...
I agree that a novice needs to wade in with a certain degree of caution rather than just grabbing any old estate pipe ... reputable dealers offer some assurance in that regard and there are a surprising number of them ... I was surprised, for example, to find that Marty Pulvers has some very nice estates available at fair prices ... when he ran a brick and mortar store in SF, I was in his place frequently and was never once aware of that fact ...

 

[puffdoggie]

As others have said higher price is more an indication of better materials and craftmanship. You don't need to spend a bundle to find a good smoker. Of course I also believe that more chrome & pinstripes make my Harley go faster! :rofl:

 

[sablebrush52]

Is Price A Good Indication Of Quality?
Maybe, but not necessarily. Anyone can get a well made pipe for abound $100, plus or minus a few sheckels, that will provide a good smoke. A collector of ultra high grade pipes, including Nordh, Ivarsson, Chonowitsch, etc told me that his expensive pipes smoked no better than his Kaywoodies, Grabows, etc.

But he liked the beauty of design, the quality of the materials, and the artistry involved. That was worth paying several hundred times what a pipe of humble origin cost. At a certain point, what is involved in the price is not better engineering, but aesthetics or bragging rights.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

In relation to the art that I make...
From the 50's to the 80's there was this phenomena of businessmen entertaining at home to win clients or prestige with the boss. Some would buy art of the times to have conversation starters. Objects of conversation. ...maybe a little bragging rites. But, art was bought and seen in the cultures. This is what fueled the modern gallery business of that time, as well as modern art. As well as made wives into entertainers. It was a different culture. People entertained... You saw more bars in homes, smoking rooms, art on walls.
Now a days, with smart phones, facetime, instant messages, group emails, wikis... people don't entertain at home. People don't buy paintings as much. People don't interact in realtime. Hell, we even have the word "facetime."
Some people even are started for this interaction. This is one of the reasons that I switched from painting back to what my father had taught me. Jewelry. Women could wear a work of metal and stones. It was an art, and it starts conversations. Pipes are similar. Me, I don't just hold up in a closet smoking my pipe. I like to take it out and enjoy it in places where it can spark conversations. Here in Alabama, there are still restaurants and bars that allow smoking. And, I also take them out to parks and town festivals. Some pipes are above just their function as a burner. They are art, and start conversations. Heck, now a days, even a Dr. Grabow could start a conversation, because of the novelty of pipes. But, some pipes can even warrant more of a tap on the shoulder and spark of words. Maybe a brag or two, but it could also spark conversations on the engineering, or just being able to introduce someone into the world of artisan pipemakers. Talk of their techniques, the finish, the sandblast... This is conversation that I enjoy, and I think I can woo someone with my passion for it.
But, then again, I may talk (or write) too much, LOL.

 

[pitchfork]

As long as you're talking about new pipes, you'll generally see a big jump in quality and enjoyment with pipes that cost around $80-120. Of course there are some Peterson and Savinelli lines that cost $50-60. But if you're trying to decide between a Grabow, for example, and something more expensive, I'd recommend going with the more expensive pipe in the $80-120 range.
Meanwhile, Rad Davis makes pipes for as low as $350 and his are reputed to smoke as well as just about any pipe ever made. Anything above $300 or so and you're paying for aesthetics and bragging rights more than anything else (nothing wrong with that).
As mentioned above, I've also heard great things about Sebastian Beo pipes from France. They sell for as low as $80.

 

[zack24]

It's an interesting question. If I make a pipe with a small piece of plateaux briar and an ebonite stem, it might cost $20 for materials. If I make a pipe cut out of a Extra large plateaux briar with pre-ban ivory and a hand-cut stem, it might cost $70-$100 for materials. In theory, there should be no difference in how they smoke- the drilling for both of them is exactly the same...but for some bizarre reason, some pipes just smoke better than other pipes- even when the engineering is almost exactly the same...Some pipes cost more than other due to the materials, time spent on picky details, or just due to complexity of design...At the end of the day- there's a big hole for the tobacco and a small hole though which you inhale the nectar of the Gods...and that is my final thought for the night...

 

[ocpsdan]

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, but to take a leaf out of Brain Levine's book: "I am the expert on my own opinion." That being said, I believe that while you can find some good smokers on a budget, typically the more you spend on a pipe, the better the experience will be. In a luxury hobby, why take a chance? I haven't had a pipe under $75 that I haven't given away. I've found that the more I spend on a pipe, the happier I am (quality and construction are sound). It pays to do your research! There is, I think, a point where price and quality plateau and begin to move downward. Get opinions, read about the company/ carver, and make sure that no matter what price you spend that the construction is sound. Even an ugly pipe, if con-structurally sound will smoke well. Smoking pipes is like a game of golf- it's not a competition and it's completely selfish; so do what you think is best and works best for you.

 

[apatim]

cosmicfolklore... interesting discussion regarding the "art" and "conversation starter" aspect!
zack24... that makes perfect sense to me. Since I know little (to nothing) about the materials or workmanship at this time, I hadn't given it any thought. Thanks.
ocpsdan... I tend to gravitate toward higher quality (which often means paying higher prices) on things that captivate my interest. When I got into woodworking a few years back, I thought I had to have the best of every tool but gradually learned that for some items, spending extra wasn't necessary. Live and learn. Pipes, on the other hand, do seem to convey much more than just a utilitarian purpose. Sure, we all want an enjoyable smoke but for some the experience can be enhanced by other factors I suppose. Factors such as how I feel when looking at the pipe as I pack it; how the pipe feels when held and gripped between my teeth; how comfortable I might feel pulling out the pipe in front of others, etc. (the "snob" affect, if you will - LOL).
I'm sure I'll spend more in the future but decided to start somewhere so I just ordered a Bjarne Viking Houston Rustic 7 and a Stanwell Alu Band #22... mainly because I like the way they look. Now I'll wait for them to arrive like a kid waiting for Christmas morning!

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

Apatim, in my opinion, those Bjarne Vikings are the prime example that you don't have to spend a fortune to get a quality pipe. I have a Bjarne Viking Houston (smooth bent dublin) and I have no complaints. The bowl will tend to get a bit on the hot side sometimes, but that's just a reminder to myself to slow down and enjoy the smoke... not create a smoke cloud.

 

[goldsm]

I am not sure if tobacco kwnos a price of pipe. Tobacco burns depend on a draw I guess.

My lovely Bjarne handmade smoke excellent but Italy basket dublin(lorenzo second?) does too.

 

[tbradsim1]

I"ve acquired 2,pipes from a renowned Artisian paid real good money and they were pieces of crap, smoked wet, but I say they were spot on in drilling, well made. It was the briar he can't contol the quality of the briar. We tend to blame the pipes most of the time, and most of the time it's our technique , bad packing, smoking too fast, tobbaco not dry enough. No price doesn't mean it will smoke good, it's all in the mind most of the time. I have an old Edwards, 15$ that smokes on par with my Chono, Emil not Jess, can't afford Jess LOL. Higher end pipes put you in a better frame of mind for most of us, You feel good, the smoke is better. But you can get some extrodinary smokes with pipes under 100$. Right frame of mind equals good smoke.

 

[mrenglish]

+1 Bradly.
With artisan pipe makers, the more you spend generally will mean better quality and engineering. This will increase the odds of getting a great smoker, but there is a point where you begin to pay for name and prestige. There is always a risk though.
The most expensive pipe I ever purchased was a Larsen Pearl. The birdseye on the bottom of the bowl was so intense you would get lost looking at it. It just pulled you in with the depth it showed. Stupid thing smoked so freaking wet it was insane. Its engineering was superb and by all accounts it should have been a great smoking pipe and it was. It would just take a handful of pipe cleaners to get through its small bowl. That was when I learned that price does not guarantee a great smoke.
On the flip side, I have a Wally Frank Briar of the Month pipe that Premal gave me awhile back. I had him open up the stem for a better draw and its one of the best pipes I own.
One thing I have noticed is that lighter pipes tend to smoke better. So I typically go for the largest pipes I can find that weigh around 45g. I clench so the weight is important for that but I have just found over the years the lighter ones tend to smoke better than heavier ones.

 

[ocpsdan]

@apatim I agree 100%. If it's something I truly enjoy, money isn't really an issue. I wouldn't call it a 'snob' affect, though. Enjoying a luxury hobby in a way that suits you shouldn't and doesn't make you a snob. Personally I feel that spending a little more on pipes, tobaccos, and accessories just means that you know what you want and aren't afraid to pursue the best of both experience and quality. There's nothing wrong with that. Folks here on the forums tend to make you feel a little guilty for buying better pipes (or I feel that way, anyway) and most talk revolves around Petersons, Stanwells, etc., with little regard other than 'nice pipe' when it comes to displaying and talking about handmade (Wayne Teipen, Alex Florov, Grant Batson, etc.) or high quality factory pipes (Dunhill, Castello, etc.). Everyone enjoys the hobby in their own way, and nothing is wrong with that. Don't let others talk you out of enjoying the hobby in your own way. Just do your research, and you won't get burned.

 

[sablebrush52]

Folks here on the forums tend to make you feel a little guilty for buying better pipes (or I feel that way, anyway) and most talk revolves around Petersons, Stanwells, etc., with little regard other than 'nice pipe' when it comes to displaying and talking about handmade (Wayne Teipen, Alex Florov, Grant Batson, etc.) or high quality factory pipes (Dunhill, Castello, etc.).

I have NEVER felt that people in this forum guilt trip anybody about their choices. I've had a few discussions with folks who don't see the point in owning a pipe that you're not going to smoke and it's a fair area for discussion. As for pipe smoking being a "luxury" hobby, it can be, or it can be pretty reasonable when compared to the price of cigars and/or cigarettes.
As for being a brand snob, so what? I know a few snobs and I don't mind it because they are honest about being snobs. I'm even a bit of a snob myself about a few things. For example, I think that the pancakes that McDonalds serves are spongy vulcanized crap, and unfit for human consumption. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.