Is Jarring a One-Time Thing?

[UncleRasta]

I'm still coming to grips with terms and concepts related to pipes and tobacco so please help redirect me if my presumptions are erroneous. I think that both, saving an unopened tin for far future consumption, and, decanting tobacco from tin to jar for the future, are forms of cellaring. If that is true, is a jar sacred once I have put say 2ozs in it, or if I have another ounce or so, can I add that to the jar?

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Others may think differently but in general, I see no reason to open a perfectly sealed tin to transfer the contents to a perfectly sealed jar. In fact, I find that rather absurd. If you plan on extended aging, seal the unopened tin(s) in mylar bags then seal the bags. You don't interrupt the existing aging process and you essentially double the seal integrity. Feel free then too transfer the already opened contents to a separate jar or mylar bag.

 

[pruss]

I'm still coming to grips with terms and concepts related to pipes and tobacco so please help redirect me if my presumptions are erroneous. I think that both, saving an unopened tin for far future consumption, and, decanting tobacco from tin to jar for the future, are forms of cellaring. If that is true, is a jar sacred once I have put say 2ozs in it, or if I have another ounce or so, can I add that to the jar?

Sacred? I think that depends on the individual.

But if you open a sealed jar, you are exposing the tobacco inside to air/oxygen again; meaning that the tobacco will stale a little more before it moves again from aerobic to anaerobic fermentation.

This doesn’t mean that the tobacco will be bad, or have gone off, (unless you unknowingly contaminated the tobacco while adding the new/fresh ounce) because of opening the sealed jar. You will just have set back the aging/fermentation process a bit.

I would opt for starting a fresh jar, versus adding new tobacco to an already sealed jar.

— pruss

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm still coming to grips with terms and concepts related to pipes and tobacco so please help redirect me if my presumptions are erroneous. I think that both, saving an unopened tin for far future consumption, and, decanting tobacco from tin to jar for the future, are forms of cellaring. If that is true, is a jar sacred once I have put say 2ozs in it, or if I have another ounce or so, can I add that to the jar?

Pruss anwered the OP's question quite well. But it also depends on the blend. A blend like St Bruno will corrode a tin over time. If you're going to age St Bruno you're better off jarring it. Mylar won't address the problem with that blend.

 

[UncleRasta]

A blend like St Bruno will corrode a tin over time. If you're going to age St Bruno you're better off jarring it. Mylar won't address the problem with that blend.

Yes, tin rust is a consideration? Do you suggest that certain blends/types are more susceptible? I did wonder why there was so much jarring, as opposed to just saving tins.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Pruss anwered the OP's question quite well. But it also depends on the blend. A blend like St Bruno will corrode a tin over time. If you're going to age St Bruno you're better off jarring it. Mylar won't address the problem with that blend.

I wasnt aware that St Bruno would corrode the tins. Does that happen with all tins of St Bruno or some? If some, what percentage? And how long does it take for this to happen? I have tins of St Bruno so you've created a concern. What other blends do this? Can you post the link to the source for this data?

 

[sablebrush52]

So far, every old tin of St Bruno, by that I mean 15 to 25 years, that I have bought over the years has shown signs of corrosion, so that's 12 out of 12, means about 100%. I am my own source. I clearly cannot be taught.

I am also not buying any more vintage St Bruno, though I will take it off someone's hands for free, and am sticking with the MacBaren version, though their Virginia base blend doesn't compare to Ogden's.

Denmark. The country where great British blends go to die.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

What other blends do this?

Mac Barens Old Dark Fired was one that was reported to be so acidic that it corroded the tins, especially in the first releases batches. I think they started coating the tins after that. But, I have yet to find any corrosion on any of my tins from that first release... even after opening, I couldn't find any inside the tins.

I guess my luck is holding fast in the tin department.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

So far, every old tin of St Bruno, by that I mean 15 to 25 years, that I have bought over the years has shown signs of corrosion, so that's 12 out of 12, means about 100%. I am my own source. I clearly cannot be taught.

I am also not buying any more vintage St Bruno, though I will take it off someone's hands for free, and am sticking with the MacBaren version, though their Virginia base blend doesn't compare to Ogden's.

Denmark. The country where great British blends go to die.

It sounds like you bought your tins already aged from someone else and it was a different version of St Bruno. And it was 15 to 25 years old. Hardly enough hard evidence for people to suddenly change the way they cellar their tobacco.

 

[generalzod]

But if you open a sealed jar, you are exposing the tobacco inside to air/oxygen again; meaning that the tobacco will stale a little more before it moves again from aerobic to anaerobic fermentation.

This doesn’t mean that the tobacco will be bad, or have gone off, (unless you unknowingly contaminated the tobacco while adding the new/fresh ounce) because of opening the sealed jar. You will just have set back the aging/fermentation process a bit.

Allow me to push back on this a bit. People age cigars in humidors they open regularly. So it seems to surprising to me that cracking a jar once, for a few seconds, would stunt the aging process in any discernible way. Mind you, I can't speak from experience where aged pipe tobaccos are concerned. Still, I'm wondering if you're speaking more from a technical point of view than a practical one.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Allow me to push back on this a bit. People age cigars in humidors they open regularly. So it seems to surprising to me that cracking a jar once, for a few seconds, would stunt the aging process in any discernible way. Mind you, I can't speak from experience where aged pipe tobaccos are concerned. Still, I'm wondering if you're speaking more from a technical point of view than a practical one.

There are two forms (maybe more) of aging...
The Theory Behind Aging Tobaccco :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion - http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/threads/the-theory-behind-aging-tobaccco.20146/

One is when the tobacco is hanging in barns or in tightly packed bales... Which is similar to the fermentation process that happens in cigar leaf.

The other is tin-centric, which is when the microbes use the existing water and oxygen to form colonies, then when the air has been used up it within the vacuum.
If you pop the tin or open the jar, after the first colony of microbes have established, run it's course, and new fauna has set in to create the aging process, you have introduced an unknown element into the process.

These two processes are based on different things.

If someone is willing to risk unknown results or slowing the process by opening their tins or jars... then by all means, it is your tobacco.

Me? I haven't seen or experienced anything that would make me diverge away from my already established cellar etiquette of not touching tins or jars until I am ready to smoke them.
Of course the current trend of re-jarring tins and opening up tins has me weary enough of ever EVER buying a jar of aged tobacco. I have never been disappointed in a bought aged tin, by finding it has lost its seal. (knock on wood)_
But, by everyone re-jarring sealed tins, it will put a serious damper on future aged tins, IMO.

 

[jeff540]

I've found no discernible difference between aging in the tin versus jar. If anything, aging in the jar and adding oxygen to the mix improves the flavor quicker according to my tastes. That's my method, see below.

 

[mingc]

Pruss anwered the OP's question quite well. But it also depends on the blend. A blend like St Bruno will corrode a tin over time. If you're going to age St Bruno you're better off jarring it. Mylar won't address the problem with that blend.

I assume you mean corrode from the inside?

 

[jeff540]

I assume you mean corrode from the inside?

Yes that is what he means. I've had several SG square tins over the years where there was substantial surface rust on the inside.

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

I have had few tins from early Mc HH ODF which lids were starting to corrode, as far as St Bruno goes, In The UK and EU SB Flake comes in little plastic containers which are then put in regular pouches ,so square tins are long gone now, In The UK even the Ol Dark Fired sells in these idiotic plastic containers

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Allow me to push back on this a bit. People age cigars in humidors they open regularly. So it seems to surprising to me that cracking a jar once, for a few seconds, would stunt the aging process in any discernible way. Mind you, I can't speak from experience where aged pipe tobaccos are concerned. Still, I'm wondering if you're speaking more from a technical point of view than a practical one.

Cigars and pipe tobacco are different beasts and must be treated differently for optimal aging.

 

[pruss]

Allow me to push back on this a bit. People age cigars in humidors they open regularly. So it seems to surprising to me that cracking a jar once, for a few seconds, would stunt the aging process in any discernible way. Mind you, I can't speak from experience where aged pipe tobaccos are concerned. Still, I'm wondering if you're speaking more from a technical point of view than a practical one.

Cigars do not undergo anaerobic fermentation in a humidor. Tobacco undergoes anaerobic fermentation in a sealed jar or tin.

Also, I’m trying real hard not to engage in the “It’s never plume” argument.

?

 

[generalzod]

If you pop the tin or open the jar, after the first colony of microbes have established, run it's course, and new fauna has set in to create the aging process, you have introduced an unknown element into the process.

Good to know. Thanks.

Cigars and pipe tobacco are different beasts and must be treated differently for optimal aging.

I thought they might be, but I also thought, "How many ways are there for tobacco leaf to age?"

Also, I’m trying real hard not to engage in the “It’s never plume” argument.
?

 

[sablebrush52]

It sounds like you bought your tins already aged from someone else and it was a different version of St Bruno. And it was 15 to 25 years old. Hardly enough hard evidence for people to suddenly change the way they cellar their tobacco.

Then don't. All I said was that it depends on the blend, and I'll stick with that.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Then don't. All I said was that it depends on the blend, and I'll stick with that.

I thought you had some factual, hard core evidence to support what you were saying. Your initial post sounded that way. Reality turned out to be somewhat different.