Interesting Completed Ebay Auctions - British Pipes

[snagstangl]

Merchant Service



I picked this one up for $15. Not really a common shape for them or finish. I wasn't going to let a band and non original stem stop me. Their stems didn't have stamps anyway.

 

[ssjones]

This cross-cut is stunning.
I went to eBay, checked the original listing and it looks just as good on the other side. There’s much I’ve likely missed but I don’t remember seeing better birdseye on a British made pipe recently.
As sable said, if birdseye is your thing then it’s not going to get much better in British wood.

You are right, but I've just never seen that kind of price on almost any Peterson.

My XL90 Supreme only has that kind of birdseye on one side. No gold band, but 1/3 the cost (unsmoked, from Mark Irwin's book, he keeps asking if I want to sell it back to him - no!).

 

[peregrinus]

No gold band, but 1/3 the cost

Pretty peace of wood you have there.
I agree, this is a super premium price on the eBay pipe and yours will likely smoke just as well, if not better. Certainly with less angst over the price.

 

[ssjones]

And a B5 Gold Band Supreme (unsmoked, found at Boswells). It was $150, but only grain, no birdseye.

 

[americaman]

You are right, but I've just never seen that kind of price on almost any Peterson.

My XL90 Supreme only has that kind of birdseye on one side. No gold band, but 1/3 the cost (unsmoked, from Mark Irwin's book, he keeps asking if I want to sell it back to him - no!).

George was telling me about Supremes with a gold band. What’s the draw to them? Rarity?

 

[ssjones]

George was telling me about Supremes with a gold band. What’s the draw to them? Rarity?

I guess. Not my cup of tea or preference. The good news is they are always very narrow, so not too over the top. The Supreme grade and grain attracted me to mine, not the band. (very tricky to read the hallmark, its so small)

 

[irishearl]

I guess. Not my cup of tea or preference. The good news is they are always very narrow, so not too over the top. The Supreme grade and grain attracted me to mine, not the band. (very tricky to read the hallmark, its so small)

I, too, have not been particularly attracted to gold bands. Silver, though, is another matter.

 

[sablebrush52]

You are right, but I've just never seen that kind of price on almost any Peterson.

My XL90 Supreme only has that kind of birdseye on one side. No gold band, but 1/3 the cost (unsmoked, from Mark Irwin's book, he keeps asking if I want to sell it back to him - no!).

Hi Al,

That's an argument based on the value of the brand rather than the quality of the wood, which is how most of us base our buying decisions. I suspect that this is different because of the extremely high quality of the birdseye figure and not a reflection on Peterson values overall.
You watch enough of these auctions and you see outliers frequently and with every maker.

 

[Kottan]

You are right, but I've just never seen that kind of price on almost any Peterson.

My XL90 Supreme only has that kind of birdseye on one side. No gold band, but 1/3 the cost (unsmoked, from Mark Irwin's book, he keeps asking if I want to sell it back to him - no!).

Sometimes even lower graded pipes have amazing birdseye.
Last year I won this Charatan Dublin Bevedere ($139).

 

[sablebrush52]

Sometimes even lower graded pipes have amazing birdseye.
Last year I won this Charatan Dublin Bevedere ($139).
View attachment 39062

That's some serious birdseye! Makes one wonder about various grading systems. that this gets a lower grading is based on what?

 

[georged]

Did someone page British pipes with birdseye?

 

[craiginthecorn]

My Peterson Supreme 337S. Plenty of birdseye here, too. The briar is gorgeous, but IMO the Dutch billiard shape isn't one of Peterson's best. The one Chance just sold is really handsome. Note that this pipe is quite small, making those birdseyes look large.

 

[orlandofurioso]

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[bluegrassbrian]

Birdseye and cross grain gets no respect, uh in respect to grading/pricing aside from Castello’s Occhio di Pernice line.

 

[Kottan]

That's some serious birdseye! Makes one wonder about various grading systems. that this gets a lower grading is based on what?

i've seen no flaws or sandpits on this pipe and have no idea how Charatan did their grading. In the 1951 Catalogue Crossgrain/birdseye is assigned to the Special grade. I have the impression that Charatan mainly focused on straight grain (and birdseye on the rim). We should ask Ken Barnes about the grading system.... Rarity, Belvedere, Perfection, Special, Distinction, Distinction Deluxe, After Hours, Executive, Executive Extra Large, Selected, Selected Extra Large, Supreme, Supreme S, Supreme 100, Supreme 150, Supreme 200, Supreme 250, Supreme 300, Coronation, Royal Achievement, Crown Achievement, Summa Cum Laude.... not to forget the sandblasts, freehands (FH) and the size groups (1 - 4) whereby the grading becomes still more complicated. E.g. a Belvedere group 4 is higher graded than a Special group1. Obviously dosn't the grain pattern matter that much in this case.
How can a human beeing differentiate all this?

 

[sablebrush52]

i've seen no flaws or sandpits on this pipe and have no idea how Charatan did their grading. In the 1951 Catalogue Crossgrain/birdseye is assigned to the Special grade. I have the impression that Charatan mainly focused on straight grain (and birdseye on the rim). We should ask Ken Barnes about the grading system.... Rarity, Belvedere, Perfection, Special, Distinction, Distinction Deluxe, After Hours, Executive, Executive Extra Large, Selected, Selected Extra Large, Supreme, Supreme S, Supreme 100, Supreme 150, Supreme 200, Supreme 250, Supreme 300, Coronation, Royal Achievement, Crown Achievement, Summa Cum Laude.... not to forget the sandblasts, freehands (FH) and the size groups (1 - 4) whereby the grading becomes still more complicated. E.g. a Belvedere group 4 is higher graded than a Special group1. Obviously dosn't the grain pattern matter that much in this case.
How can a human beeing differentiate all this?

Human beings can't differentiate between all of that. It's marketing run wild.

 

[peregrinus]

How can a human beeing differentiate all this?

Perhaps there is no real explicit hierarchical sense because it is several generations of differing marketing strategy overlaid historically.
The originators never considered that someday someone would try to sort out equivalent rankings of differing terminology spread over decades. I imagine that, in particular, later management was likely just interested in stimulating sales.

It's marketing run wild.

Just as in nature, things tend to run wild in significant shifts. Leaving paleontologists and pipe collectors scratching their heads at what has been wrought.

 

[Kottan]

Perhaps there is no real explicit hierarchical sense because it is several generations of differing marketing strategy overlaid historically.
The originators never considered that someday someone would try to sort out equivalent rankings of differing terminology spread over decades. I imagine that, in particular, later management was likely just interested in stimulating sales.

Just as in nature, things tend to run wild in significant shifts. Leaving paleontologists and pipe collectors scratching their heads at what has been wrought.

Surly the numerous grades were invented and introduced by Herman Lane for a better and expanded marketing of the Charatan brand. Before he entered the scene Charatan had only a few quality grades i.e. De Luxe Sandblast, De Luxe, Special, Selected, Supreme. (1951).
But nevertheless the Grades which came tnereafter were
all placed in hierachical order. (the De Luxe grade was replaced by the Belvedere grade.) Here is a website with a Charatan retail price list, where you can find all the grades from 1970.

Estervals Pipe House - https://www.tecon-gmbh.de/info_pages.php?pages_id=121

Btw. the Supreme 100 came first up in 1958 as Jguss mentioned before in another thread.

 

[georged]

Yeah, the whole Charatan "blizzard of grades" thing was Herman's doing, according to Basil Sullivan, anyway. (What John Loring was to Dunhill, Basil was to Charatan).

The sad bit, if you don't care for elaborate/ostentatious grading schemes, anyway, is that it isn't the makers pushing them on the public, but that buyers demand them. I've known any number of carvers who started out intending to follow the "my name and date and nothing else" nomenclature route, but gave in after a while rather than piss everyone off in addition to losing money.

The same brain thing that makes some people collectors in the first place will not rest until all that can be categorized has been categorized; and those who are concerned with the social status that that owning luxury goods confers like heirarchies as a way to keep score. i.e. "Mine cost more than yours."

 

[craiginthecorn]

Charatan was notoriously inconsistent in their grading. I listened to this exact discussion between Fred Hanna and Rich Esserman yesterday regarding the Achievement grade presently for sale at smokingpipes.com. They felt it was worthy of the grade, by the way. There was the mention of the "three pint Achievement." Humans are inconsistent. Some more than others.