Interesting Completed Ebay Auctions - British Pipes

[rdpowell]

The stuck tenon was designed to screw onto the stem---and stay on the stem---so that the pipe came apart push-style in daily use.
If the pipe had been designed to be screwed together, the extended portion of the stem would be bone---not naked amber (which is too 'snappy" unless reinforced---and the shank would have a small threaded hole directly in the wood.
The wall thinness of the mortise isn't/wasn't a worry because the band reinforces it. And drilling wasn't a delicate operation because it was drilled first and shaped/thinned second.
In short, as usual, Jesse knows his stuff. [::]

Ah, But, it is a Bone Screw sir. Look at the photo on the previous page I posted.

 

[georged]

Then you just time the screw itself, as was standard procedure for the period. No need to deal with extra labor, complexity, and components (fussy ones at that) to achieve the same end.
:roll:

 

[sablebrush52]

Like I said, I'll post the tenon/amber assembly that Barling used during this period when I return on Tuesday. Simply put - because I have fixed this problem and have actual experience with this, and collect Barlings from this period as well as other periods, a collection spanning a century - that is a vulcanite tenon stuck in the mortise. It has become unscrewed from its connector which in turn attached the vulcanite tenon to an amber stem. Whether that is a bone connector or not I can't tell, and it doesn't matter, but I can tell you that the connector doesn't look like any Barling bone connector that i've seen that was intended as the sole connector. And I'll show you what that obsolete joinery looked like since I have an 1896 Barling pipe made for JB that has a bone connector intended as the only connector. George is correct.
Then if you all want to continue to debate this, have at it but I'll be done with it. Life's too short.

 

[rdpowell]

Jesse, I understand, I just have a hard time with it, doesn't make sense to me and I certainly don't want to make this a big debate either sir. Hopefully your photo's will clear this up for me. And thank you for taking the time to provide them for me.

 

[ssjones]

I thought this one would be fun to pick up at $50-couple bucks....

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F273248061898

 

[dmcmtk]

I thought this one would be fun to pick up at $50-couple bucks....

Al, I had that one in my watch list, I didn't check the final price!

 

[wyfbane]

I have always loved Charatans, and lately have been going through a bulldog phase. I saw this auction for a 38 and it went reasonable. I jumped.
Charatan 38 auction

 

[dmcmtk]

wyfbane, nice looking Special.

 

[wyfbane]

Thank you! Yet another stem to polish tho... ha ha

 

[kenbarnes]

I love this cased Barling Bulldog (made for John Brumfit, Holborn, London). Yes, the tenon sleeve remains in the countersink. I think this happened quite often as people were used to unscrewing the bone thread anti-clockwise whilst this newer approach required the smoker to detach the push-in tenon by turning it clockwise. I adore this hand-cut amber mouthpiece. This pipe, in my opinion, had many hours spent on it as well as hand-cutting the case from a block of wood. I do know that at this time, Weingot and Brumfit were the top shops to sell to in London and the manufactures 'favourites'.
The Charatan that wyfbane purchased is a great exmaple of a 38 Bulldog. I think this one is quite early (mid 1960s?) as later on they were fitted with a DC mouthpiece (as I recall).

 

[jaytex1969]

I just watched this 7 pipe "set" jump $900 in the last 20 seconds...
LINK

 

[jpmcwjr]

 

[bnichols23]

I can believe that, Jay. My case of fleabay fever isn't as bad as some,thank the pipe gods, but I know I've got a terminal case of it....

 

[ssjones]

I don't see too many Ashton sets, and even less early ones, but this final surprised me a bit (one was unsmoked).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASHTON-MATCHED-CASED-SET-1989-ONE-UNSMOKED-amp-ONE-MINT-/382482714485?nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=y%252BVXX6waNmnkLxc2ucK3KoNfMMk%253D&orig_cvip=true

 

[sablebrush52]

Arrived home this afternoon and, as promised, here are images that I hope will explain what I was writing about with regard to the tenon of the 1910 Barling being stuck in the mortise.
Here's the picture of the pipe in question:

You can clearly see a circular object centered in the shank. The amber stem has a threaded connector extending from it. Were the tenon not stuck in the shank, the stem assembly would look like this:

Barling used a threaded connector to attach a vulcanite tenon to the amber stem. When I originally bought this pipe, the tenon was stuck in the mortise and I released it, cleaned it and the mortise, and screwed the tenon back onto the threaded connector. I would have unscrewed it to take another picture, but it didn't want to budge and I'm not going to force it. It seems to be happy to be back in place.
The reason for this construction was to provide a stronger and more durable join than either using an amber tenon or a bone tenon, both of which are fragile. Barling was pretty early in using this solution at a time when other makers were still using bone screw connectors. Vulcanite has more tensile strength than amber, which is brittle. This pipe dates to 1912. Here's a picture of the pipe:

It's a nice looking pipe with very fine straight grain going 360˚ around the bowl.
Besides, who in their right mind would deliberately cut a bone connector, as the sole connector, that looked like the one showing on the 1910 pipe? All those threads? You would be turning and turning and turning the stem many many times to get it seated. That's a lot of stress to apply repeatedly to a fragile connector.
So what would an actual bone connector have looked like? Well here's an earlier Barling from 1896, coincidentally also made for JB, and it has a bone connector that is quite similar to many others that I've seen.
Here are a couple pictures of the pipe:

And here's the pipe with the stem removed so that you can see the bone connector. It's threaded only at the base, where it also widens out to be a bit thicker and stronger. The tapering makes it easy to insert into the mortise. A few turns and it's seated.

I hope that this helps clarify things.

 

[rdpowell]

I see what your saying, just seems to be double the work and cost to use such a construction of a tenon when it would have been a lot easier to just cut a Vulcanite tenon in the first place (and not so large of a diameter). Not disagreeing, I just don't understand their thinking. Reckon I'll have to research this too, although I doubt if Barling left any records about this. Thank you for taking the time and effort to show me this Jesse.

 

[bnichols23]

Ditto on the thanks here, Jesse. I always learn at least one something from you. Wisdom from the Bard of the Mountain! :worship:

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm not sure what they could have done differently. Two very different materials are being conjoined. Vulcanite has tensile strength that allows it to give in a way that's the opposite of brittle amber and therefore more suited to being rotated into the wooden mortise. I suppose they could have countersunk the vulcanite tenon into the amber and glued it in place, but that wouldn't have insulated the amber from stresses on the vulcanite and might very well have led to more structural failures in the amber. The threaded connector is a better join from the standpoint of isolating the amber.
As far as records, much of the Barling records were destroyed when the factories were bombed during the Blitz. What we have is largely the fossil record provided by the pipes.

 

[carolinachurchwarden]

From what I see, I don't understand why they didn't just go ahead and make the tenon push type out of vulcanite in the first place then. Unless they were just trying to give the stem that amber look, in which case, vulcanite would be out the window as far as aesthetics are concerned. Looks to me like they could have just seated the vulcanite tenon portion up inside the amber and secured it that way, but I see how they could have even tried that method and decided threading it in made for a better connection. Just so hard to know what their methodology was back then since it's not like they all kept the most meticulous records of everything they tried that didn't work.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Great illustrations, Jesse. (I believed you the first time!)