How God Punishes Arrogance

[brewshooter]

Aaaargh, what have I DONE?!?!!?

 

[numbersix]

While there is good and evil in the world, no human being is ever 100% one or the other.

+1

Paul Levy also writes a lot of very interesting and insightful stuff regarding evil from a Jungian perspective

I like his [Levy's] work and even corresponded with him years ago.
And Carl Jung was, IMHO, a genius and I feel I've learned quite a lot about myself and human nature from him, esp his ideas of the shadow self.

Aaaargh, what have I DONE?!?!!?

:rofl:

 

[numbersix]

the 10 Commandments Mel Brooks was right. There were originally 15

Meant to say, for me that was one of the funniest lines in movie history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4TAtRCJIqnk#t=45s

 

[kashmir]

But what is the greatest evil? If you are going to epitomize evil, what is it? Is it the bomb? The greatest evil that one has to fight constantly, every minute of the day until one dies, is the worse part of oneself.

-- Patrick McGoohan

 

[numbersix]

But what is the greatest evil? If you are going to epitomize evil, what is it? Is it the bomb? The greatest evil that one has to fight constantly, every minute of the day until one dies, is the worse part of oneself. -- Patrick McGoohan

Great quote Kashmir, thanks for sharing it. This quote in many ways encapsulates The Prisoner. Just one of the many reasons why I am a fan of the series and McGoohan himself (who was, from all reports, an exemplary human being.)

 

[kashmir]

Because of your avatar, Number Six, I did a bit of reading on Patrick McGoohan, and watched a few episodes of The Prisoner. Interesting stuff! Existential food for thought. Then I came upon this interview. This was the type of intelligent TV I grew up with in the sixties. Where interviewers and guests openly smoked on TV. And where weighty subjects were tackled. When Cronkite read the news. The America I grew up with. Compare this with today's vacuous TV wasteland, 500 channels of nothing. And no smoking. Walmart sanitized nation hawking Chinese products. The destruction of worker's unions. Personally, I think the world and our country has gone to hell. The Captain has left the ship, and we, as a nation, have been set adrift. TV is a reflection of society. A mirror. People like Patrick McGoohan did much to push the envelope of TV in those heady days. Something totally lacking today. Why post this YouTube interview on a thread ostensibly dedicated to the notion of God punishing the arrogant? As Patrick McGoohan would probably have said "We have seen the enemy And it is us". He was a canary in the coal mine, long before we thought to look for such things.
The Prisoner Puzzle (Interview with Patrick McGoohan )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiIUnCMpGbM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[numbersix]

He was a canary in the coal mine,

+1
Very well put. I look forward to watching this video - thanks for sharing.

 

[irwinmetro]

That was a fun read. I won't yet venture into the religious aspect, but in regards to the original heart attack post, I'd like to offer a line from my favorite folk singer, Todd Snider:

You know, the number one symptom of heart disease is sudden death. It's like time stands still forever, till it starts shaking around like some crazy old hooker on meth.

A little off-colour perhaps but it always brings me a smile. Maybe this should be a reminder to all of us, that regardless of our beliefs any one of us could go at any minute, and not a one of knows what'll happen when we do.

 

[phred]

I did a bit of reading on Patrick McGoohan, and watched a few episodes of The Prisoner. Interesting stuff! Existential food for thought.

Oh, absolutely. So to speak... :wink: Love that initial quote, Kashmir. Will check out the video later.

 

[brian64]

Peck was a believer and I am happy to say was a personal friend. "People of the Lie" was a brilliant work IMO.

That’s wonderful that you knew him as a friend. I agree PotL is a brilliant work. I need to get around to reading some of his other books eventually.

 

[brian64]

And Carl Jung was, IMHO, a genius and I feel I've learned quite a lot about myself and human nature from him, esp his ideas of the shadow self.

Agreed. One day if I’m having an acute case of BAD, I may have to get a copy of the Red Book. But last time I checked it was something like $140 on Amazon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOKKCJsYqMw

 

[foggymountain]

Brian: thanks for the video. I know Jung only from the introduction to the I Ching, and the Archetypes book. The Redbook is a great book of art. I can't believe Jung did those paintings. They make him one of the best 20th century artists, for which he is not generally known. And I intend to steal the title for a little book of my red paintings, which I am working on now The Redbook is very humbling for any artist. Thanks again.

 

[brian64]

I couldn’t agree more foggy. From what I’ve seen on-line of the images in the book they are quite amazing. The story behind the book is amazing as well...below is the piece from the NY Times in ‘09 which is when I first learned of it.
The Holy Grail of the Unconscious
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/magazine/20jung-t.html?_r=0

 

[numbersix]

Foggy, who'da thunk this thread would go 2 pages?!
Thanks for the video Brian, appreciate it. I once heard an interesting story (supposedly true) about a meeting once with Jung and Freud (Jung was at one time Freud's protege). The two were arguing about metaphysics. Freud took a decidedly atheistic approach while Jung (due to his many paranormal-type experiences) argued in favor of a spiritual POV.
During the conversation, Freud's anger was palpable and Jung could feel the psychic tension mounting and he said to Freud that there will be a pounding on the book shelf behind him and sure enough, a loud knock exploded behind Freud. Freud jumped up and investigated and accused Jung of trickery.
After calming down, the argument resumed and once again Jung could feel the pressure mounting and predicted another pounding on the shelf. When this occurred, Freud accused Jung of trickery once again and told him to leave. They never spoke again after that.
I read this so long ago that the exact facts of the story might be a little mixed up - and not sure how true or false it is, but my recollection was that it was from a reputable source.

 

[foggymountain]

Great story Six. I seem to remember hearing something like that too. Jung was the more advanced soul, but Freud was important in the history of their field. Now most psychiatrists no longer consider him as important as earlier. My mother was a Freudian. Her favorite sport was psychoanalyzing everyone at the dinner table. She did it to get even for who knows what. We hated it. After a while, nobody in the family would speak to her except my sister, my father and I. She never understood why. So if I am sometimes direct and tactless on the forum, I got it from her.

 

[brewshooter]

Hold on, an important point has been missed here. Godwin's Law was realized on page one of this discussion.

 

[locopony]

I love it when someone uses the commandment "thou shalt not kill" to make the point that the Bible has contradictions. This is why; It means that they dont know what the original word is or what it means. In order to correctly define the context of a statement one must first know what the words mean. By meaning I mean definition not interpretation.

By looking first at the context of the writing one can see that "kill" does not actually apply. Kill means to end any life be it plant, animal, or human.

To kill a tree or weeds in a garden. If contextually the word was "kill" it would be wrong to so much as cut a plant down and eat it or burn it. While we can see thats obviously wrong the rest may not be so obvious. So let us examine this farther. Literally "kill" would also apply to animals, but we see the ok given earlier to eat animals and later to even sacrifice animals. If the word kill here was actually "kill" it would be wrong to take the life of an animal even if it was killing one of your children. So contextually and with the application of some literary understanding you can rule this out. This leaves the o ly obvious answer the text mean you can not kill a human. Let us apply some context them earlier it is writen that if a man murders another man he shall be killed by a man. Hold on now .......we see a differentiation now between murder and kill. So contextually you now have "thou shall not commit murder". Now that we have some context what is the actual word used from the original language? Literal word for word "You do not murder". A direct order not to murder.. i hope we dont have to define murder being that it has been explain contextually above.

 

[foggymountain]

locopony: Interesting you should mention that. I was thinking about it recently. I came to the conclusion that whereas murder is forbidden, even unnecessary murder of plants, killing may be necessary under certain circumstances, such as self defence and getting food. But killing without it being absolutely necessary is a sin. That explains why though I have gone fishing for the boatride, I refused to fish, and why I never give flowers, and even hesitate to walk on the grass. I always knew these things even before thinking them out. BTW I have discovered that plants can feel fear, and it is unfair to intimidate them.

 

[brian64]

During the conversation, Freud's anger was palpable and Jung could feel the psychic tension mounting and he said to Freud that there will be a pounding on the book shelf behind him and sure enough, a loud knock exploded behind Freud. Freud jumped up and investigated and accused Jung of trickery.
After calming down, the argument resumed and once again Jung could feel the pressure mounting and predicted another pounding on the shelf.

Yes, that is a true story. One of several very interesting ones involving Jung’s relationship with Freud. I believe the wood in the book shelf “popped” as happens at times due to temperature or pressure changes. The timing of it and Jung’s prediction of the second pop was too much for Freud. There was a depiction of this in the recent movie “A Dangerous Method”.
Jung’s expansion of Freud’s ideas into the spiritual nature of consciousness, both at the individual level and the collective, is correct and a vast improvement on Freudian psychology, IMO.
Freud’s American nephew, Edward Bernays, used his uncle’s ideas to create the whole modern age of mass manipulation through media advertising and propaganda directed at the baser instincts of the collective subconscious. Below is a quite well done documentary on this for anyone who hasn’t seen it and may be interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7EwXmxpExw

 

[locopony]

Foggy, you win the grand prize. Awareness!

"My laws will be writen in the hearts of man"

precisely what is happened to those who are sensative to the watcher (that voice in the back of your mind that teaches us the unlearned lessons, and buggs us when we have wronged someone.).