Also, as mentioned earlier, there is the whole "honor thy father and mother". It's not like it's a church retreat. This is his parents home. WHATEVER the cause of their objection, he is charged with honoring their wishes, especially it could be argued in THEIR house.
Hiding the pipes in devoted Christian household?
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seacaptain, In regards to your real world illustration, I find that a valid point, however, and this is something I hoped someone would get around to eventually in this discussion, individual and organized religious views and interpretations vary so much each individual, including the original poster, must question themselves and find their own answer.
I will freely admit that many of my religious views differ from a great many others, both organized and individual, to such an extent that which questioned as to what denomination I am, I answer "I'm a heretic." My own personal belief, which I except no one else to hold, is that the illustration of the plank goes to a much broader sense in that it is to remind us that while we may not be guilty of a specific sin, we are guilty of sin. Therefore we may direct our brother or inform him of his wrong doing, but it is still not our place to judge. That is why I feel Matt 7 would be relevant. It is moot, however, in that, as I said earlier, the original poster will own find his answer in himself.
By the way, I have enjoyed our discussion on this topic and am pleased by the added bonus that each reply brings me closer to that magical 100th post.
Sammy
P.S. - Will hold off on the is addiction a sin or symptom question for a later date.
I will freely admit that many of my religious views differ from a great many others, both organized and individual, to such an extent that which questioned as to what denomination I am, I answer "I'm a heretic." My own personal belief, which I except no one else to hold, is that the illustration of the plank goes to a much broader sense in that it is to remind us that while we may not be guilty of a specific sin, we are guilty of sin. Therefore we may direct our brother or inform him of his wrong doing, but it is still not our place to judge. That is why I feel Matt 7 would be relevant. It is moot, however, in that, as I said earlier, the original poster will own find his answer in himself.
By the way, I have enjoyed our discussion on this topic and am pleased by the added bonus that each reply brings me closer to that magical 100th post.
Sammy
P.S. - Will hold off on the is addiction a sin or symptom question for a later date.
booker, some, not me personally, but some believe that not telling or keeping something from someone is a lie of omission. It appears it could be a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't situation.
Sammy
Sammy
jaq', your post doesn't specify, will this be a visit of limited duration, or are you going to live with your parents on an extended visit or for the foreseeable future? These are two different situations. For a limited visit, just suspend the pipe smoking, I'd say. They don't need to be introduced to every difference between your life in another country and theirs in Korea. If you are to be there for a longer time, the situation is more delicate, but still manageable. You will have to judge your parents ability to accept differences and feel your way along. I wouldn't try to reconstruct their opinion of smoking. Eventually, I would want to get them to adjust to the fact of your, let's say, moderate smoking, perhaps only away from home, or in some designated part of their home, inside or outdoors. Very traditional cultures and subcultures can and often do accommodate to some degree these human differences, with or without prejudice. However, I would start with your parents by re-establishing some trust and closeness on all those issues where you can. Learn about them and what changes they may have been through. Then work on this pipe smoking issue gently and with caring. I think you may be amazed at how accepting they can be, even if they don't approve.
I found this to be a most interesting thread. I won't advise as I am not a proper theologian. But there are a couple of inexpensive books found on Amazon that may help supplement your decision-making process (in addition to holy Scripture):
Christian Pipe Smoking: An Introduction to Holy Incense by Uri Brito
The Christian Gentleman's Smoking Companion by Zach Bartels
And there is a forum called the Christian Pipe Smokers Forum found at http://christianpipesmokers.net
Christian Pipe Smoking: An Introduction to Holy Incense by Uri Brito
The Christian Gentleman's Smoking Companion by Zach Bartels
And there is a forum called the Christian Pipe Smokers Forum found at http://christianpipesmokers.net
I'm not a proper Theologian either.... I don't know what's right or wrong in a strict Christian sense, with respect to pipesmoking. What I do know is you only have one set of Parents, and they will be gone too soon............
I would put down the pipe, enjoy your time with your folks...... The pipe will be there for you when you return, your parents may not be............ :
:
I would put down the pipe, enjoy your time with your folks...... The pipe will be there for you when you return, your parents may not be............ :
:
I didn't mean to start an exploration of religion with my answer. Should have known better. I was just suggesting to the OP that he should show his parents the respect they deserve and observe their rules in their home. Then, if he really wishes to confront his parents in order to establish his independence, certainly not maturity, he could do so with out such a blatant display of bad manners.
The original post has little or nothing to do with the pipe and everything to do with respect for his parents with regard to their home and their rules. The pipe is simply a ruse in my opinion, a tool for announcing that he is indeed a big boy and capable of challenging his parents.
The basic question is why he feels the need to be confrontational? An adult would simply respect the the rules of host, parent or not.
The original post has little or nothing to do with the pipe and everything to do with respect for his parents with regard to their home and their rules. The pipe is simply a ruse in my opinion, a tool for announcing that he is indeed a big boy and capable of challenging his parents.
The basic question is why he feels the need to be confrontational? An adult would simply respect the the rules of host, parent or not.
wyfbane, I take your point. I'm talking across cultures here. I have known some people who were rigid and traditional in their lives, either by culture, religion, political viewpoint, or personality, or a combination. Some, but not all, seem to be able to function around family members who are not just like them, if the "transgressions" are played down. I've had and have some Asian friends but none happen to be Korean, and I have not visited or lived in Korea, so I'm sorry if my advice was wishful thinking.
Honor your parents wishes while in their house.
One day your kids will (hopefully) do the same for you.
It's how it's supposed to work.
Cheers!
One day your kids will (hopefully) do the same for you.
It's how it's supposed to work.
Cheers!
Ah, some people just love situational ethics. Life without right or wrong is soooo much easier. Everybody just do their own thing, so 60's, and damn the consequences. Life without boundaries is indeed fun, for a while. Just accept the consequences without complaint when they appear.
A son or daughter, and their behavior, is the parent's business until death. Nature of the beast I'm afraid. My daughter is nearing 40, I'm close to 70, her health and well being is always in the forefront of my mind. Unconditional love does not imply unconditional acceptance of children's misbehavior. Children can sometimes be disappointing as well as a joy and a source of pride. Some children can't resist kicking the sleeping dog. They have a driving need to be contentious.
I also understand the need for children to challenge parents. That is also the nature of the beast. With maturity children usually learn to pick their battles and do so in a civil manner. Juvenile antics can be entertaining though. This is most especially true for we, the unaffected audience.
A son or daughter, and their behavior, is the parent's business until death. Nature of the beast I'm afraid. My daughter is nearing 40, I'm close to 70, her health and well being is always in the forefront of my mind. Unconditional love does not imply unconditional acceptance of children's misbehavior. Children can sometimes be disappointing as well as a joy and a source of pride. Some children can't resist kicking the sleeping dog. They have a driving need to be contentious.
I also understand the need for children to challenge parents. That is also the nature of the beast. With maturity children usually learn to pick their battles and do so in a civil manner. Juvenile antics can be entertaining though. This is most especially true for we, the unaffected audience.
Absolutely true! But, one can live life without being consciously rancorous, contentious. A nod to others feelings and beliefs does not mean not living one's life. Consideration of others and less selfishness, me! me! ME! It's all about ME, is not a bad way to live one's life.
I can argue without being uncivil. I pick my battles carefully and I have beliefs which are not to be challenged or belittled. I also have drawn lines that are not to be crossed. But, I will not purposely cause another harm or discomfort to others without a damned good reason, they will be warned and they will see it coming.
The very idea of challenging one's parents over something so insignificant as a pipe is childish. An adult would simply take up smoking without feeling the need to show off or announce it to the world. Look at ME! Look at ME! Parents will smell it in the hair and on the clothes. They'll know and can chose how to respond. They can ignore it, forbid it in the home, express disappointment or welcome it. No need to throw down the gauntlet.
I can argue without being uncivil. I pick my battles carefully and I have beliefs which are not to be challenged or belittled. I also have drawn lines that are not to be crossed. But, I will not purposely cause another harm or discomfort to others without a damned good reason, they will be warned and they will see it coming.
The very idea of challenging one's parents over something so insignificant as a pipe is childish. An adult would simply take up smoking without feeling the need to show off or announce it to the world. Look at ME! Look at ME! Parents will smell it in the hair and on the clothes. They'll know and can chose how to respond. They can ignore it, forbid it in the home, express disappointment or welcome it. No need to throw down the gauntlet.
Will putting my pipes in a closet damage them? Is that the question? It seems to me like the OP went a long way to pose a non-question in order to receive justification from us for being rebellious (or something?)
Its your parents' house. If they are anti-smoking, which is an understandable position, don't smoke there. It has little to nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of smoking itself, so much as simply respecting someone else's property and position.
If your ACTUAL motive is taking your pipe paraphernalia in hopes of getting caught so you can force the conversation - that's a question with different implications altogether. You have to carefully examine your motives here and decide what you're really trying to accomplish.
If you want to have the conversation about smoking and discuss your thoughts on it with them, there are better (and more mature) ways to do that than hiding in a closet and broaching the issue via getting caught and having a blow out.
Its your parents' house. If they are anti-smoking, which is an understandable position, don't smoke there. It has little to nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of smoking itself, so much as simply respecting someone else's property and position.
If your ACTUAL motive is taking your pipe paraphernalia in hopes of getting caught so you can force the conversation - that's a question with different implications altogether. You have to carefully examine your motives here and decide what you're really trying to accomplish.
If you want to have the conversation about smoking and discuss your thoughts on it with them, there are better (and more mature) ways to do that than hiding in a closet and broaching the issue via getting caught and having a blow out.
Hello again,
I am not sure how long I will be staying in Korea.
It could be couple of months, even couple of years.
Currently, I am a college student.
Generally, I was surprised to see how this was steered more into religiously prove and logically persuade my parents, instead of how to hide the pipes. It is not my interest to go against my parents and justify my actions, but rather how to hide the pipe safely from my parents.
But I should have not include such controversial topics. As pipesmokingtom said, I have included too much details. I should have just included how to hide the pipe. It is my fault and I will be careful in the future.
Please accept my apologies.
I believe, warren, you are wrong on the part where I am a big boy who arrogantly says that my way is better than my parents' ways. I do not think that my ways are better since my parents walked the road I am walking. Not only that, there are nobody who knows me better than my parents! As you mentioned, it is absolutely right thing to do to respect my parents. That is the right thing to do as a son. And as huntertrw mentioned, deception will cause me trouble.
Therefore I am not taking pipes with me.
All of you, thank you all for your thoughts and tips.
I believe that your thoughts guided me to the right direction.
You all have a good day!
I am not sure how long I will be staying in Korea.
It could be couple of months, even couple of years.
Currently, I am a college student.
Generally, I was surprised to see how this was steered more into religiously prove and logically persuade my parents, instead of how to hide the pipes. It is not my interest to go against my parents and justify my actions, but rather how to hide the pipe safely from my parents.
But I should have not include such controversial topics. As pipesmokingtom said, I have included too much details. I should have just included how to hide the pipe. It is my fault and I will be careful in the future.
Please accept my apologies.
I believe, warren, you are wrong on the part where I am a big boy who arrogantly says that my way is better than my parents' ways. I do not think that my ways are better since my parents walked the road I am walking. Not only that, there are nobody who knows me better than my parents! As you mentioned, it is absolutely right thing to do to respect my parents. That is the right thing to do as a son. And as huntertrw mentioned, deception will cause me trouble.
Therefore I am not taking pipes with me.
All of you, thank you all for your thoughts and tips.
I believe that your thoughts guided me to the right direction.
You all have a good day!
You could take the advice everyone else gave above, which is valid advice, or;
Quit sneaking around. Introspect. Is pipe smoking something you think you'll be doing in 5 years? How important is it to you? How important is your parent's validation of you to you? What sort of relationship do you have with your parents? How would they take the news of you being a pipe smoker? Is it worth the risk to bring your pipe things despite what their answers might be? Would you be able to survive the dissent if you brought your pipe things into their home behind their backs?
My advice to you would be to be honest. Have a conversation beforehand. Whatever they say, you are still their child. They'll still love you, and they'll get over it.
Quit sneaking around. Introspect. Is pipe smoking something you think you'll be doing in 5 years? How important is it to you? How important is your parent's validation of you to you? What sort of relationship do you have with your parents? How would they take the news of you being a pipe smoker? Is it worth the risk to bring your pipe things despite what their answers might be? Would you be able to survive the dissent if you brought your pipe things into their home behind their backs?
My advice to you would be to be honest. Have a conversation beforehand. Whatever they say, you are still their child. They'll still love you, and they'll get over it.
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