Help Verify Sasieni One Dot Fish Tail Logo

[Noonnoon]

Hi !! Everyone
I’m new here. Just received Sasieni One dot fish tail logo but it’s lacked of PAT no. and also the Sasieni logo seem weird than usual fish tail logo that i ever seen on google search and ebay.
The nomenclature state:

Sasieni (script in fish tail)
LONDON MADE
MADE IN ENGLAND
71SSB (placing on left side just between 2nd and 3rd line)

Those pictures will show below.
Per see. The tail of last ‘ i ‘ just didn’t sweap continuously like usual fish tail logo. It left one line over the fish head.
I ever seen few fish tail logo alike mine before over ebay. But those all bear PAT no. Mine not.

Through my reading over pipedia. It seem PAT no. is using on some period just before WWII and that for the pipe destinate for US and UK market (?) Correct me if I’m wrong. Due this one i got from Europe continent.But the fish tail logo still get me confuse on dating as well as its unusual tail shape.

Lastly. The stem is without stringer and it’s double step tennon. It’s probably the replace one(?) By the way I’m not quite worry about the stem as much the pipe stummel.

May all your guys and experts over here could help me figure out if this one is fake Sasieni or not?
And the stem is original one or replace ?
If you capable to determine.

Your opinions here would be really appreciated.
Best wish.
—Noonnoon—

 

[ashdigger]

One Dots sold to the American market were different than One Dots for the European market. After WW2 European One Dots were still being produced. For quite a long time.

That stem almost looks like a Comoy.

I’m not an expert, but here’s a great thread about One Dots

Sasieni One Dot Fake :: British Pipes

I noticed this pipe last night after an auction for a genuine Sasieni pipe closed. I've said it before on this forum, NEVER buy a collectable Sasieni from Italy. OLD SASIENI PIPE ONE DOT FAMILY ERA SPECIALLY SELECTED TOP CONDITIONS | eBay -...

pipesmagazine.com

 

[sablebrush52]

I’ve seen one dots that lack the patent number. The awash is visible but faint. What I find surprising is that it’s a sandblast. I’ve never seen a one dot sandblast.
I thought Dunhill had a patent on the sandblast at that time.

 

[dmcmtk]

Hmmm. I think the Sasieni stamp looks correct. What confuses me is the shape number, 71, and the sandblasted finish... 71 S (saddle stem) SB (sandblasted finish presumably), the thing is, to the best of my knowledge, Sasieni didn't start sandblasting until a much later time than the early One Dots, 1919-24. The bent Bulldog shape I know best is the Danzey (shape 79), so I'm not sure what you have there. Most Sasieni's in the pre-war - early post-war period that I have seen had "hardware". What they may have done in some other markets (South Africa comes to mind)...?

 

[donjgiles]

Could this be one of the 1979 limited edition pipes where they used the old fish signature?

 

[ssjones]

Could this be one of the 1979 limited edition pipes where they used the old fish signature?

I think those were 8 dot stems?

One thing for sure, no one is counterfeiting Sasieni pipes these days.

 

[mikestanley]

I’ve seen one dots that lack the patent number. The awash is visible but faint. What I find surprising is that it’s a sandblast. I’ve never seen a one dot sandblast.
I thought Dunhill had a patent on the sandblast at that time.

Sasieni stole to stem logo, maybe old Joel stole everything, including cream and sugar for the employee break room?

Mike S.

 

[tschiraldi]

Thos

Could this be one of the 1979 limited edition pipes where they used the old fish signature?
[/QUOTThose were Eight Dots and there was a blue line running through.

 

[tschiraldi]

That doesn't look like a Sasieni stem to me. The logo seems legit. I'm pretty sure Sasieni didn't sandblast then. Could be a good copy of the logo. I have seen some counterfeit Sasieni pipes. Sorry, Im.just not positive on this one.

 

[sablebrush52]

Sasieni stole to stem logo, maybe old Joel stole everything, including cream and sugar for the employee break room?

Mike S.

Actually, Vauen had the one dot before Dunhill and Dunhill “appropriated” it for their own use.
Probably part of the reason Dunhill lost its European lawsuit against Sasieni.
IIRC, the ca. 1979 Sasieni Eight Dot revivals all had the “SPECIALLY SELECTED” stamp.
So this is either an example of a rarely seen later European one dot from the ‘30’s or ‘40’s or a fake.

 

[sablebrush52]

The bent Bulldog shape I know best is the Danzey (shape 79)

The 71 shape number is a Dublin, named the Victoria. So, another anomaly.

 

[cshubhra]

This has been very educational so far. My 2 cents to add

Regarding European One Dots - I read somewhere (And I tend to agree) - The pipedia article which states One Dots were produced in Europe till 60s is probably wrong. I think the author got confused with Sasieni Claret. If there were European One Dot pipes till 60s, someone would post a picture or a catalog somewhere. I have never seen any. All one dots I have seen in forums, eBay and elsewhere always have a early patent number, never have a name and always have the fishtail logo. My guess is they were stopped very soon after they started production of the eight dots, as having too many “first” lines would be confusing to consumers, and would dilute brand identity. Also, based on what I read, Sasieni was more popular in Us compared to Europe so continuing a line only for a “less favorable” market is not a wise business decision. I have also reasons to believe that Alfred Sasieni was a smart businessman.

Regarding OP’s pipe I have no opinion but following with interest.

 

[dmcmtk]

The 71 shape number is a Dublin, named the Victoria. So, another anomaly.

I can't believe I forgot that, shape 71 the Victoria! I mean I have several examples of the shape, and it was the number used for that Dublin for a long time... So at this point, owning and having looked at alot of Sasieni made pipes, I officially have no idea what the OP has there.

 

[verporchting]

The remnants of the typical bead line make me wonder if it wasn’t sandblasted at a later date?

If so, it’s just about possible someone fitted a different stem as well?

No idea really, and I’m not any kind of knowledgeable about this brand at all, just wild speculation about a bunch of odd things in one package. Seems plausible if highly unusual.

I say that because a friend who was getting into pipe making and restoration at one time starting experimenting with sandblasting random stummels and fitting stems he laying about in boxes. Some of his creations had wildly unusual combinations that looked damn good but would have driven future collectors insane trying to decipher the anomalies.

 

[cshubhra]

Is this the same pipe as OP or a sibling?

Estate pipe: Sasieni 71SSB (~1960)

Estate pipe: Sasieni 71SSB (~1960)

www.bollitopipe.it

 

[sablebrush52]

The remnants of the typical bead line make me wonder if it wasn’t sandblasted at a later date?

If so, it’s just about possible someone fitted a different stem as well?

No idea really, and I’m not any kind of knowledgeable about this brand at all, just wild speculation about a bunch of odd things in one package. Seems plausible if highly unusual.

I say that because a friend who was getting into pipe making and restoration at one time starting experimenting with sandblasting random stummels and fitting stems he laying about in boxes. Some of his creations had wildly unusual combinations that looked damn good but would have driven future collectors insane trying to decipher the anomalies.

Your remarks concerning a possible replacement stem are spot on. Sasieni is the only major British make whose collector value is markedly affected by the stem logo. But what about the incorrect model number?
Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[ashdigger]

I am prepared to take heat over this comment.

If this pipe came from a sale in Italy, I’d be very skeptical.

The only estate pipes I’ve ever questioned came from vendors it Italy. I’ve purchased two and both had weird issues. One had an odd stamping issue and one had a great looking stem, but the slot was just wrong, wrong wrong.

He’s one of the five vendors I wouldn’t buy a pipe from if it cost $1.

I’m not being a xenophobe, there are four American eBay vendors I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole.

 

[cshubhra]

Another similar Sasieni found which was listed and sold from another website

Similar issues -

1. Shape number (17) does not match
2. One Dot with similar nomenclature
3. SSB stamp - The first S is probably correct as it is indeed a saddle stem. The SB as mentioned stands for Sandblast but this is the first time many of us seeing the SB stamping

Sasieni One Dot 17SSB -1919-1946- Cartago Pipes estate pipes.

Pipa usada restaurada Sasieni One Dot 17SSB -1919-1946. Cartago Pipes estate pipes. Tienda de pipas usadas restauradas, higienizadas y listas para fumar.

www.cartagopipes.com

 

[sablebrush52]

I am prepared to take heat over this comment.

If this pipe came from a sale in Italy, I’d be very skeptical.

The only estate pipes I’ve ever questioned came from vendors it Italy. I’ve purchased two and both had weird issues. One had an odd stamping issue and one had a great looking stem, but the slot was just wrong, wrong wrong.

He’s one of the five vendors I wouldn’t buy a pipe from if it cost $1.

I’m not being a xenophobe, there are four American eBay vendors I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole.

Only four? eBay must be improving.

 

[ashdigger]

Only four? eBay must be improving.

Two of the four are extremely high rated, even by some Forum members.

I can tell by the background of the photos who the seller is.... so I just keep scrolling.