Help ! Obscure London Pipe....When? Where? Who?

[rfernand]

Typo - I meant "03" (billiard)
Dunhill standard codes are XYZZ, where X is the group, Y is the stem type, and ZZ are the shape. In this case, this looks like a Group 4 03 shape.
I am merely speculating because of the age of the pipe and the "London made". I don't know if Dunhill built store pipes out of Parker seconds -- but the grain, shape, and overall look of the pipe remind me strongly of theirs. (coincidentally, I was recently mystified by some store pipes I saw in Maui that I'd swear were Peterson's)...
Any "store pipe" collectors out there?

 

[jguss]

I can tell you a bit more.
First off, it was definitely Elkin; not Elkins. The "s" was either a typo or a journalist's error.
The Elkin family was prominent in the London tobacco-related trade for a long time, the most famous member being Adolph (or Adolphus) Baron Elkin, born in New Zealand in 1866 and died in London in 1949. He founded Adolph Elkin & Co, a tobacco, pipe, and smoker's requisites wholesaler. Adolph had two sons, Moses Michael (sometimes the names are reversed) and Bernard, who both followed their father in the tobacco business. From here it gets a bit murky. For a couple of reasons I suspect that Moses (1897-1975), might have been the same man as the Moss referred to in the Sautter article, but am not completely sure.
What is clear, however, is that the tobacconist M. Elkin was established at 106 Mount Street about 1957 (the first year it appears in the London telephone directory), and was no longer in business under that name by 1980 (1979 is the last year that M. Elkin appears in the London phonebook). This is consistent with the link to the article about Desmond Sautter. Incidentally, if Moses was Moss, then clearly Sautter couldn't have bought the shop from him four years after he died. So either he bought it from an heir, or bought it a few years earlier and subsequently changed the name, or Moses wasn't Moss after all.
Notwithstanding the Moses/Moss question, it's certain that your pipe was made between 1957-1979, and I think a decent bet that M. Elkin sourced it from Adolph Elkin & Co.
Best,

Jon

 

[jpmcwjr]

To clarify another point: the location of the pipe shop is posh, but I am afraid the pipe isn't- there are horrendous fills on the shank, diminishing almost all value to a collector. However, a fine shape, and if it smokes well for you, you've got a winner.

 

[mayfair70]

Gentlemen,

I received a reply from Michael Clements, Pipe Consultant for Sautters, this morning and he confirmed what you folks had already stated;
"Elkin was the name of the (tobacco) shop before Desmond Sautter bought it and Parker and also other British makers made pipes and stamped them up with the shop name."
He also said they are soon to launch the "Sautter Knightsbridge Pipe Club" (I read this as $$$$) and if any of you are interested in joining to let him know. I'll be happy to forward his email (I don't know if it is public or not) to any of you in a PM.
dmcmtk: Thanks for your input and calling in the "Consulting Detectives"
jguss: Thanks for the history and input. I am fortunate indeed to have found this website as everyone I have encountered has been generous with their time and knowledge.
jpmcwjr: I was truly put off by the apparent fills, secretly hoping it was an anomaly of the finish from the flash photography, but couldn't resist shelling out the $15.00 for such an otherwise well made and beautiful pipe. The thickness of the rim alone leads me to believe I could render someone unconscious with it if need be. This may end up being my first restoration project. I removed a fill the size of a pea from a Grabow (my second ebay purchase, Elkin being my fourth) and will have plenty of briar dust to spare once I make the Grabow completely unrecognizable. This, combined with the expert restorations I have seen from various members here, gives me a modicum of hope for such an undertaking. I have no doubts it will be a fine smoker, especially if it turns out to be a Parker, Sasieni, Dunhill etc. second or even third.
Thanks Guys !!

 

[mso489]

Great thread! Great historical detective story! I was going to suggest consulting an older London cabbie, since those folks are trained like historians to know the city and its neighborhoods in excruciating detail, but I think you've pinned it down as well as can be done. Thanks to all with information -- most impressive!

 

[mso489]

Postscript: London, like New York and some other cities, has a crisis in its high end real estate, with actual residents, even wealthier ones, getting priced out of many neighborhoods entirely in favor of extremely wealthy buyers who live in their real estate little, if at all, and basically use high end residences as investment property. In NYC, Greenwich Village has lost nearly all of its arts, journalism, fashion and other creative professionals to hedge fun and strictly investment buyers, most of whom don't live there for more than a few weeks a year if that. It's basically a ghost town for tourists. Likewise with some parts of London. I suspect Mayfair has a few old families and mostly no one else at home. Maybe the normal residents could be brought back as paid caretakers ... I doubt it.

 

[mayfair70]

mso489:
I would love to be a paid caretaker/resident of Mayfair....It's the "normal" attribute I would have difficulty with.
BTW- I have another pipe of unknown provenance if anyone is game. I'll check "Who Made That Pipe?" and other resources over the next few days. If I don't have any luck, I may throw that one at you folks as well. It is by far my best smoker to date.
Again, thanks to everyone for your knowledge and interest !!

Peace,

Michael

 

[misterlowercase]

Great thread!

:!:
Apologies for my late arrival, been working out of town and offline.
From the looks of the stem end bit combined with the serif'd font stampings,

I'm pretty sure it is a later era Orlik-made pipe.
They were one of the few to use such a font:

And they had a line named Straight Grain too.
It looks pretty close to a shape 86:

http://pipepages.com/orl10.htm
Or perhaps a shape 84?

 

[doctorbob]

Good sleuthing by everyone!

 

[misterlowercase]

Ran out of edit time...

slight addition:
Or perhaps a shape 84?

http://pipepages.com/orl9.htm
A history of Orlik is something I've been meaning to do, but yet still haven't compiled much of anything.
Cake & Dottle has a nice write up:

http://cakeanddottle.com/pipe-rack/1-dating-orlik-pipes
::
Catalog:

http://pipepages.com/orlshape2.htm
A little history here,

but mostly dealing with the earlier era:

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/an-incredible-old-orlik
An Orlik SG with serif stamping:

http://estatepipes.co.uk/shop/Orlik-Straight-Grain-XL-Tall-Billiard-1148
::

 

[dmcmtk]

I'm liking the Orlik idea, shape 84... Orlik definitely made Private Label shop pipes. I have four Bewlay pipes that were made by Orlik, hallmarked (with Orlik's mark) between 1959-61, one actually is a Straight Grain.

 

[mayfair70]

dmcmtk: Do you have a pic of that straight grain? Would love to see how they compare. I think the shape 84 is spot on.
Orlik has similar font but the L's and M's are different than my stamps. There are NO shape numbers on this pipe or any markings other than what I have previously stated. However, Bob's Briar's has this little write up about Adolph:
ADOLPH ELKIN & CO LTD

SMOKECRAFT

Not a lot is known about this company. It was formed in London on the 8th April 1942 which considering the Luftwaffe was raining down high explosives on that very city in an attempt to wipe it off the map was a brave thing to do. It was located in a mock Tudor building situated at 788 790 FINCHLEY ROAD, LONDON, NW11 7TJ. The building is still there looking just like it did when the company was formed but alas Adolph Elkins have faded into history.

One of the avenues they did explore was selling their own line of pipes which they named Smokecraft. Obviously made for them by one of the more well known makers such as Barling or Orlik, these were middle of the road pipes made with good briar and finished in a no nonsense no frills way. A good all round pipe.
Aside from the fills, there is nothing middle of the road about this pipe in my admittedly limited experience. I can imagine this pipe sitting in the window (one side of the stem is more oxidized than the other and has corresponding diminish of finish) catching shrapnel and needing fills, then later booted off to M Elkin to sit in another window.
Here is the apparent demise of the company:
2352 THE LONDON GAZETTE, I7TH FEBRUARY 1981
ADOLPH ELKIN & CO. LIMITED

At an Extraordinary General Meeting of the above-named

Company, duly convened, and held at 29 Queen Anne

Street, London W1MODA, on 5th February 1981, the

subjoined Extraordinary Resolution was duly passed:

"That it has been proved to the satisfaction of this

Meeting that the Company cannot by reason of its liabilities

continue its business, and that it is advisable to wind up

the same, and accordingly that the Company be wound

up voluntarily, and that Anthony Peter Ohrenstein, of

27-29 Queen Anne Street, London W1MODA, be and he is

hereby appointed Liquidator for the purposes of such

winding-up."

(733) D. R. Lennard
I would tend to go for an earlier date due to the fact the Elkin stamp is OVER the fill on shank and could have been put there anytime after the pipe was made. Plus the stem oxidation is crazy...its a simple push bit plastic tenon black as night where it goes into the pipe but caramel everywhere else. This is an amazing smoker I think got damaged and passed to M Elkin. I tend to think older things are are better made and I can only compare it to what I have. The grain is straighter and more beautiful with a rich red-orange luster (and there is a lot more of it) than my 4 hole stinger Flame Grain Kaywoodie. It has an easier draw than both my MMCC's, my Dr. Grabow Golden Duke (without filter) AND my Sasieni Mayfair straight bulldog (without aluminum stinger). It is light as air and the coolest smoke I have ever had. I swear my tiny MM corncob weighs more. This is my first large pot (My cat pipe was the best smoker til I got this).....it's 5 1/4 inches long, 1 and 9/16ths tall with an inch and a quarter deep bowl thereabouts. The tenon and mortise fit together so well they squeal and actually snap together the last 16th or so of an inch (my cat pipe does the same thing though has a little more play in the stem at first) so I'll have to wax it a touch.
Every pipe I get is BETTER than the last. I'm picking better tobacco for sure. I have a great woman, great pipes and really good tobacco. Maybe I should start making pipes. After ten years of solid shit, I am the luckiest man on the planet. Now, I go outside for my favorite Jedi Blend... I'm gonna fire up Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.

 

[jguss]

Actually Adolph Elkin was established decades earlier; the 1942 event was just a change of legal form, which happened to take place a year or so after the company's move from Houndsditch to Finchley. Changes in legal form happened all the time in the UK (and for that matter, here too). As new legal forms which provided superior protection against liabilities, or were more advantageous for tax or estate reasons, became available companies were reorganized in any of a variety of ways. A recent analogy here in the States would be the wave of LLC formations and conversions that took place over the last twenty years or so. The net result was (and is) almost always invisible to the trade and to the end-user, barring bankruptcy, of course.
As for the link to M. Elkin, that's suppositional; but I still suspect the "M" was Moses Michael, Adolph's son.

 

[doctorbob]

You would be surprised at how well an oxidized stem can be brought back with a little care and consideration:

To:

 

[doctorbob]

Take care around the stem shank interface and the button, possibly restain, and you will have a beautiful smoker there!

 

[mayfair70]

jguss: This is why I joined the Forum; You guys know your pipe history. And if you don't know something, you look it up or ask. Thanks !
doctorbob: Nice Job! I really like your pipe there. What kind is that?
Actually, at this point, I would not be surprised. With pictures like yours, others from pipesmagazine and rebornpipes.com and a few other sites; I have seen many dreary brown smudges turn into glossy-black,sharp and beautiful stems. Six months ago I would have been surprised, now I am merely amazed every time I see it done. This Elkin is the perfect candidate too. I'll certainly take special care at the stem/shank interface as well as the button. I won't stain it most likely. I'm one of those weirdo vintage collectors who generally likes things to look their age, within reason, and as long as the function isn't compromised. I am especially picky about wood and prefer their natural colors to most modifications. One exception being I do like the look of an oxblood stain on well grained and ringed briar. Once I get the fills on this pipe invisible, I'll return the stem to its non-oxidized glory, give it a good buffing and call it done. I'll take a new picture or two in the morning to show you how nice it actually looks right now with natural yellows, reds, browns and black. The only pics posted are from the auction and the flash drained all the color out of most of the images. I already think it is beautiful and love how it smokes. Pics tomorrow !

 

[fnord]

Mayfair70:
The knowledge base you can tap into here never fails to astonish me.
I love an estate pipe. They make up the majority of my collection. But due to fills I probably would've passed on yours. At the same time, you're treating this purchase as an exercise in refurb'ing skills and that's so commendable.
Please take Before, During and After pix of what you do and then post them. (We find them erection inspiring.)
Otherwise, as the saying goes, it never happened.
Best of luck.
Fnord

 

[mayfair70]

fnord: Yes, knowledge is why I do anything.
Here is what I'll NOT be touching, cause its already perty nuff !! The funny thing is this is what I saw when I looked at the ebay pics. This is BEFORE pics of a merely cleaned pipe.