Happy 4/20 day? wtf?

[zanthal]

Back on topic though.
I guess what boils down to my point about legalization ... my fear, is that if they did legalize marijuana ... would that snowball into legalization of more drugs and/or end up in an uncontrollable anarchy?
as much of a relief that revolution and anarchy sounds like it would be at times, I can't help but think it would be significantly worse, for a lot of people.
Sometimes it's hard to convince myself wouldn't be worth it if I could ring some necks in the process! But then again, I digress.
But if there's anything this thread has shown, there's some suits in the government that really deserve a good old fashioned renaissance style public flogging.

 

[winton]

I had no idea what 4/20 day was about. I thought it might be some variation on April 15th. For non-US readers, we are required to file our income taxes on 4/15, or the next business day. I think we need to move our elections as close as possible to 4/15.
Winton

 

[brian64]

@zanthal: One of the many benefits of de-criminalizing the "drugs" that are currently illegal would be to REDUCE violence. The violence that people associate with illegal drugs is primarily a product of the black market. You always have violence surrounding the black market trade in anything that is "illegal". Just as we saw during alcohol prohibition...all of the violence that took place then (Capone, etc) ended when prohibition ended.
As far as the more petty violence, such as addicts mugging or burglarizing in order to buy drugs, this only occurs again because prohibition causes the price of drugs to skyrocket...the only reason you almost never hear of alcoholics robbing people to buy booze is because booze is so inexpensive...because it is legal.
Also, some of the harsher, more dangerous "street drugs" such as crack, are also primarily a product of the black market...crack is to drug prohibition what moonshine was to alcohol prohibition. It is people making it in their little home labs (stills)...and just as with moonshine, street drugs need to be as concentrated as possible to facilitate smuggling. These substance also become more dangerous when they are "cut" with other chemicals. All of this type of activity would all but vanish if drug prohibition was ended. People tend to forget that all of these substances used to be legal...they used to put cocaine in Coca-Cola. Almost any substance can be dangerous. It is the dosage that makes the poison.
No one wants "anarchy"...and we don't need to re-invent the wheel. We already have a Constitution...we simply need to start following it again. The entire "war on drugs" is blatantly unconstitutional, and ends up being used as an excuse for a war on freedom and privacy and individual rights across the board. Drug abuse, just like alcohol abuse, needs to be treated as a health issue, not a criminal one.

 

[lonestar]

Well I guess since all of you are dying to hear my opinion on the subject :D

Marijuana laws are probably the worst side effect of smoking the stuff.

On the other hand, the drug itself is more harmful and addictive than users like to admit. I'd say of all the smokers I've known, 90% of them smoke it every day or at least every week, and would have a hard time walking away from it for any length of time. I also believe most of them would be doing more with their lives if they didnt smoke so much. Some people I know are grown men, but they've never grown up because all they care about is living at moms house and smoking their own weight in the green stuff.

With all that, the truth is still in the middle. Its not as dangerous as some make it out to be, its not as safe as others like to say, but its still more harmful from a legal aspect than from actual use. I say legalize it. Let adults make up their own minds to stay away or to smoke it.

 

[zanthal]

@brian64 - You're a scholar on the subject compared to me, and denying the logic you present is a fool's errand. I hope I live to see an inkling of justice brought to it.

Some people I know are grown men, but they've never grown up because all they care about is living at moms house and smoking their own weight in the green stuff.

Grr, don't I know it.
Truth be told, the "fear" of legalization that I mentioned isn't really mine. But it's afloat out there and I had to mention it.
I'm more afraid of the people who cackle, kick back and pretend they like things just the way they are, and I mean that from a global perspective.

 

[brian64]

@lonestar: I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'd just add two comments:
1) The fact that "marijuana" is illegal obviously does not keep any of the types of individuals you mentioned from using it.
2) I do NOT smoke marijuana myself, and I do not use any illegal substance. But I am firmly convinced that alcohol is much more harmful than marijuana. I do drink alcohol very moderately and don't have any problem with it...but many people do have a major problem with alcohol. The same is true with marijuana...there are those such as you mentioned, and then there are those who use it moderately and have no problem with it.

 

[fredvegas]

I guess what boils down to my point about legalization ... my fear, is that if they did legalize marijuana ... would that snowball into legalization of more drugs and/or end up in an uncontrollable anarchy?

Maybe a few other drugs might get decriminalized, but nobody could make as good an argument for the decriminalization of Crystal Meth as one could for marijuana. Of the legal drugs that we already enjoy (alcohol, nicotine, caffeine), many are more dangerous than marijuana, yet marijuana is still illegal.
I agree that being able to test impairment is going to be a huge key to legalizing pot. Once a driver can be tested on the scene for impairment, then we should be all set to see it federally legal. It's one of the last few sensible reasons for keeping pot illegal, and even then only hardly so. If an officer pulls you over and thinks that you're too high to be driving, he could always charge you with reckless driving. Provided you get pulled over by an honest cop, who's not just out to bust you because you enjoy marijuana.
Although, I also have an issue with the way alcohol is tested. I firmly believe that sometimes at 0.08%BAC I can operate a motor vehicle just as good as I do at 0.00%BAC. I also believe that sometimes at 0.06%BAC, I shouldn't be driving. I don't think mere alcohol percentage is a good enough indicator of actual impairment.
Anyway. I would love for pot to be legal, but I don't smoke it now. I'm not willing to risk a trigger happy cop shooting my family, my dogs, or myself just for a better buzz than beer.
As soon as it is, though...
Oh, as for Phillip Morris ruining the plant with their poisons, I'm sure they will make some mass produced marijuana. And it'll probably do the trick. But once it's legal to grow it out in the open in your own backyard, I think anybody who appreciates quality bud will probably grow their own.

 

[rd02sir]

Wow this really blew up didn't it haha.
I'll post up a video I took from parliament hill.

 

[zanthal]

seems natural that we would all have well established opinions on the subject.
how did 420 start anyway?
I had my ideas but I find the explanation at:
www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/what-420-means-the-true-s_n_188320.html
to be likely.
not that I much care but it explains a lot

 

[meech]

@Zanthal I don't know all the details but from what I've heard in the 60's there were a group of college students who got together every day at 4:20 PM to light up, and it grew in popularity.
I'm sure some one knows more about it than that, but that's all I've got.
Edit: Way to go and change your post while I typed mine lol..

 

[zanthal]

Sorry :rofl: but I edit.
Before I looked it up, I always thought it was a spoof on tea time being 4 o'clock. They took tea time and said "we're off a little bit heh!"
But it makes good sense that it was made by the police first. They have a code for everything they do regularly.

 

[batdemon]

As far as the more petty violence, such as addicts mugging or burglarizing in order to buy drugs, this only occurs again because prohibition causes the price of drugs to skyrocket.

I would disagree with this, only because you said the ONLY reason this happens is because of the prohibition on drugs. I would argue that commiting crimes to fund your drug habit, not pot but other harder drugs, is in large part due to the fact that the addict can't function as a member of society and hold down a job giving them the funds to support their habit.

 

[brian64]

@batdemon: Yes, quite true...but couldn't you say the same thing about chronic alcoholics? Except for the following: because alcohol is so inexpensive, many alcoholics can manage to get by and still pay their rent and other necessities. But if they had to spend the same amount on alcohol that a typical hard-drug addict has to spend, they would be behaving and living the same way as said druggies.
Now some alcoholics do degenerate to that level, homeless, etc. But they end up doing things like panhandling, rather than committing violence in most cases, again because they only need a few bucks to buy booze.
And speaking of "drug related violence", much of it in recent years has been the direct result of people under the influence of psychotropic prescription drugs which so many studies show actually causes homicidal and suicidal tendencies...but society just accepts that because...it's legal.
Anyway, imho, after the last several decades of witnessing what a giant cluster-f*ck the whole "war on drugs" has been, and how much damage it has done to our society, it's hard for me to believe that any thinking person still supports it. We already went through all of this same BS with alcohol prohibition...but as the saying goes, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
EDIT:
Just wanted to add the following: it's painfully obvious that all of these same forces of suppression, control and prohibition are being brought to bare on tobacco. Sometime in the future people are going to be having this same debate about tobacco products when it is finally completely illegal. This is all the more reason why it's difficult for me to understand why any tobacco smoker supports these policies of criminalization of select substances and of making criminals out of people for simply "possessing" something and/or using it in the privacy of their own home.

 

[jcsoldit]

Wouldn’t it be great if we could get the same amount of ground roots energy and passion around saving our rights as adults to enjoy tobacco that there is behind legalizing marijuana?
By the way I was in high school back in the 70’s, so don’t even try to tell me about smoking pot, my generation perfected it. I had to walk through a cloud of pot smoke just to get on campus every morning. That was before anyone was concerned about secondhand smoke, so we would just grin and bear it without complaining out-loud because that would require exhaling. 8)
The moral of the story is most of us grew up and left our sometime ill advised experimenting behind to live somewhat happy and productive lives like the generations before and after us... ::

 

[lonestar]

most of us grew up and left our sometime ill advised experimenting behind to live somewhat happy and productive lives

What he said :lol:

I spent a third of my life high on anything and everything I could buy. What a waste.

Drug addiction is an ugly thing, and one thats likely to follow you to your grave once you get started. I've known every type from nurses stealing prescription pills to crack addicts who've sold their soul and everything else they have.

Drugs are bad, and not just because they're illegal. It changes your thoughts, your actions and a lifetime of it can add up to some serious consequences. Marijuana is no different, but the side effects are less damaging. I dont believe its any worse than alcohol.

 

[hobie1dog]

100,000 people die each year from prescription drugs, but....they're legal
5. Q: Has anyone ever died from smoking marijuana?

A: No; not even once. American Judge Francis Young studied all the evidence in 198 and ruled that "marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume." The federal agency NIDA says that autopsies show 75 people per year are high on marijuana when they die, but this does not mean marijuana is a factor in any of their deaths.
Deaths per year from:

tobacco=340,000-395,000

Alcohol (not including accidents)=125,000+

Drug overdose (prescription)=14,000-27,000

Drug overdose (illegal)=3,800-5,200

Marijuana=0

 

[ohin3]

@ Hobie: Can I get an amen?

 

[zanthal]

Go forth and smoke doobies then.

 

[photoman13]

Marijuana does nothing for me and it smells terrible. Enough said.

 

[igloo]

Here comes old Bob .You know he got drunk again and beat up his wife and kids , kicked the dog .Wreaked his pickup and got his third DUI . But at least he does not smoke Pot . Hypocrites !!! :crazy: