Tobacco came in yesterday! Bag note was pretty much the same, probably because the tobacco was hanging together for so long. I could smell it through the envelope, I got the figgy goodness, but a little duller than I would guess straight out of the tin. Both flakes were pretty moist. I'm sure it's heresy, but I'll be cube cutting both, give them both some dry time, because they are pliable flakes, for the first smoke later today. Will report later on!
Group Tasting - Laurel Flake and St. James Flake
- Thread starter ashdigger
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Just got done smoking and will share my thoughts. I went ahead and went with two pipes of similar smoking capabilities. The Laurel Flake was in the Karl Erik and the SJF was in the Winslow Crown. Both tobaccos cube cut. The Laurel took to the flame very easy, and the SJF had to be coaxed (as is my experience with FVF/SG). I smoked one bowl for a few minutes, then switched. I was drinking water and sniffing coffee beans in between to cleanse my palate. Here are my thoughts on both:
Laurel Flake: First char and puff was full of flavor! I immediately got the stewed fruit, and maybe like a flower like notes. Not herbal, but a sweetish scent. The sweetness lasted throughout the entire bowl, and every now and again I would get a sour/tang (what I think of MC's nice aged Virginia). Every relight was spot on, never any charred notes. The after taste was lighter and had me wanting more.
SJF: Full body smoke once I got this lit. It had the traditional SG mouth feel, with a little bite if I pushed it. Smoking this I got more woody/earth notes, but there was still the aged Virginia goodness that was the back bone. Slightly sweet at times, a little less than the Laurel Flake. The second half of the bowl I believe the Perique kicked in and I got a little spice to it. The second half of this bowl took a little more work to keep lit and the flavors became more full.
After a couple of back and forth, I noticed that the in between lights were very similar, as if I was lighting the same smoke. Even the non-lit draw seemed the same at times. But that Laurel had just that little more sweetness to it than the SJF throughout the entire bowl, and the SJF a little more woodsy.
My thoughts are that these are two very similar tobaccos, maybe the same, but I think the Laurel has some extra casing/topping that added the touch of sweetness. And the tang showed more in the Laurel. Both excellent smokes, and smoking both together gave me a very nice nic buzz I am enjoying while I type (one I don't get often, ha)!
Thanks Ash for the opportunity! Can't wait to here what everyone else thought!
I think they are basically the same blend; always did. The Laurel Flake has a little more of a stewed fruitness and fermentation that was likely enhanced by the aging process. I tried a small sample a few years back and thought the same thing then, only I noticed a dab of cocoa back then that I don't notice in this batch. I never could explain that. I do think now, as I did then, that a light sweet essence was added to the Laurel Flake, probably sugar. What very small differences between the two were, aging has pumped up those minor changes a mite.
Either way, I've been very happy to compare them, and I appreciate the opportunity, Ash Digger. Thanks a bunch, man!
Either way, I've been very happy to compare them, and I appreciate the opportunity, Ash Digger. Thanks a bunch, man!
My 2 cents...
I think they are very similar, after all they are both pure Va/Per flakes from the same blender.
I do think the blends of virginias differ with St. James having more dark virginias and Laurel having a bit more medium and bright leaf. Laurel tastes sweeter whereas the St. James sweetness is more dark. There may be a difference in length of steaming and pressing, but I really do not know.
I also believe the Perique used is different, as I recall the reason for creating the Laurel Flake in the first place was to use a "special" batch of perique that Knoxville Cigar had aquired.
I am glad you all are enjoying it, thank you again Ash for your generousity.
Don
I think they are very similar, after all they are both pure Va/Per flakes from the same blender.
I do think the blends of virginias differ with St. James having more dark virginias and Laurel having a bit more medium and bright leaf. Laurel tastes sweeter whereas the St. James sweetness is more dark. There may be a difference in length of steaming and pressing, but I really do not know.
I also believe the Perique used is different, as I recall the reason for creating the Laurel Flake in the first place was to use a "special" batch of perique that Knoxville Cigar had aquired.
I am glad you all are enjoying it, thank you again Ash for your generousity.
Don
Well I guess I’ll just go ahead and post my thoughts as well.
First of all I’d like to thank Ash for including me in this generous offer. I’ve never done anything quite like this and I’m thankful for the opportunity.
First 3 pipes full I smoked each blend by themselves and not back to back. Fully rubbed out both flakes and let dry for 15 to 30 mins, I smoked outdoors in 70° F weather, slightly breezy, sunny and always after a moderately sized meal. Smoked in a BB Stanwell 190 pipe that is reserved for VA & VaPer blends. When comparing in this manner (memory) I came to the conclusion that these two blends are identical and the only perceived differences noted were subject to the 10 years of difference between the LF & SJF. Personally, I preferred the SJF as it was slightly more sharp and not as mellowed by age as the LF at this point.
Next I smoked both blends back to back in similarly shaped pipes with chambers nearly identical and both pipes dedicated to the VA genre. This time I smoked indoors right after a large dinner. Conclusion, yes, I agree with basically everyone that these two blends are the same. At this point, I still can’t decide on a winner, some smokes I think I prefer the SJF but other times I prefer the LF but the differences are so minor that I really could’t tell them apart in a blind taste test. Both were absolutely stellar smokes and I can’t wait till my stash of SJF hits the 5 yr mark. I still have some left of both blends for a few more bowls and I shall cherish the rest this stuff.
First of all I’d like to thank Ash for including me in this generous offer. I’ve never done anything quite like this and I’m thankful for the opportunity.
First 3 pipes full I smoked each blend by themselves and not back to back. Fully rubbed out both flakes and let dry for 15 to 30 mins, I smoked outdoors in 70° F weather, slightly breezy, sunny and always after a moderately sized meal. Smoked in a BB Stanwell 190 pipe that is reserved for VA & VaPer blends. When comparing in this manner (memory) I came to the conclusion that these two blends are identical and the only perceived differences noted were subject to the 10 years of difference between the LF & SJF. Personally, I preferred the SJF as it was slightly more sharp and not as mellowed by age as the LF at this point.
Next I smoked both blends back to back in similarly shaped pipes with chambers nearly identical and both pipes dedicated to the VA genre. This time I smoked indoors right after a large dinner. Conclusion, yes, I agree with basically everyone that these two blends are the same. At this point, I still can’t decide on a winner, some smokes I think I prefer the SJF but other times I prefer the LF but the differences are so minor that I really could’t tell them apart in a blind taste test. Both were absolutely stellar smokes and I can’t wait till my stash of SJF hits the 5 yr mark. I still have some left of both blends for a few more bowls and I shall cherish the rest this stuff.
These reviews look exactly like I figured, based on my thoughts about these two similar/dissimilar/same blends.
Twas double the fun! And a reminder of how much I love SJF and we don’t really need to be sad that Laurel Flake is no longer made.
Does anyone here have anymore experience with the other Tavern Tobacco Co. made by SG?
Does anyone here have anymore experience with the other Tavern Tobacco Co. made by SG?
Both of these are fantastic, thanks again for letting us partake of these fine tobaccos. If I didn’t know anything about them, just from a visual standpoint I would not have thought they were even close to the same. They look quite different to my eye! The aroma was also quite different. The SJF smells darker, fruitier, tangier... the Laurel smells lightly bready and sweet. I imagine this is a product of the significant aging. I will say after smoking small bowls of each side by side, and then a bit more of each one at a time, I distinctly prefer the SJF! It tastes fuller, tangier, maybe a bit sharper. The laurel is very balanced and smooth, but that many years of aging has taken something out of it, perhaps? I’ve never tried either brand new so I can’t confirm that. But the SJF is much more satisfying to me. Even after tasting them both, they differ enough that I wouldn’t know they were the same blend. I wonder if they would match up more closely if they both had the same age on them? Either way, I genuinely enjoy these. Thanks so much for letting me participate in this tasting, I want more of that St. James now!!
The tobacco arrived safe and well here in Edinburgh, Scotland(surprisingly quick!!)! Thanks again Ashdigger for giving us this opportunity to taste these delicious tobaccos.
I have already smoked a pipe of the Laurel Flake and I was blown away. In a few days I will post a write up of both tobaccos! Cannot wait to try the st james flake tomorrow...
I have already smoked a pipe of the Laurel Flake and I was blown away. In a few days I will post a write up of both tobaccos! Cannot wait to try the st james flake tomorrow...
Again, I want to thank Ash. These tobaccos are superb. Here is my 2 cents.
I do believe they are the same or just about as close as you can get. The aging has some effect, but all the flavors are there in both. I am not going to be on the search for more St. James flake. I have to have more......TAD, feed the TAD!
My notes:
Laurel
-sweet lasting the bowl, red VA style
-I did get some cocoa on the light a few time (was this psychosomatic?)
-lots of deep fruitiness
-soft flavors (much like a pinot noir has or a really well made European Pilsner)
-bit o honey especially when sipped.
St. James
-rugged
-more plumness (perique?)
-a least once with the cocoa note on a light
-big flavor (if sticking with alcohol metaphors, Zinfandel or cab sav or a really in your face hoppy beer)
I do believe they are the same or just about as close as you can get. The aging has some effect, but all the flavors are there in both. I am not going to be on the search for more St. James flake. I have to have more......TAD, feed the TAD!
My notes:
Laurel
-sweet lasting the bowl, red VA style
-I did get some cocoa on the light a few time (was this psychosomatic?)
-lots of deep fruitiness
-soft flavors (much like a pinot noir has or a really well made European Pilsner)
-bit o honey especially when sipped.
St. James
-rugged
-more plumness (perique?)
-a least once with the cocoa note on a light
-big flavor (if sticking with alcohol metaphors, Zinfandel or cab sav or a really in your face hoppy beer)
Finally got my envelope, thanks Ash...
I just finished the first bowl of Laurel Flake, so I'll give my impressions. Please keep in mind that I am a dedicated aromatic smoker and this is the first VaPer I've ever tried.
This was like when you're not paying attention and top falls off the pepper shaker onto your food...The first thing that hit me was the pepper taste. Not just a hint, not a bit but full blown black pepper. It took almost a third of the bowl for my taste buds to not scream at me. After that I did start noticing some of the Virginia coming through. Slight citrus and grassy but it was, for me, completely overpowered by the perique. I"m not sure whether this blend is considered light, medium of heavy on the perique content but if it was cut in half, even two thirds I think I would enjoy it a lot more. I didn't detect any topping flavours but then again, it may be because of the powerful spicy taste the dominated.
Being a one bowl a day (max) smoker, I'll try the St. James tomorrow and see what it offers.
I just finished the first bowl of Laurel Flake, so I'll give my impressions. Please keep in mind that I am a dedicated aromatic smoker and this is the first VaPer I've ever tried.
This was like when you're not paying attention and top falls off the pepper shaker onto your food...The first thing that hit me was the pepper taste. Not just a hint, not a bit but full blown black pepper. It took almost a third of the bowl for my taste buds to not scream at me. After that I did start noticing some of the Virginia coming through. Slight citrus and grassy but it was, for me, completely overpowered by the perique. I"m not sure whether this blend is considered light, medium of heavy on the perique content but if it was cut in half, even two thirds I think I would enjoy it a lot more. I didn't detect any topping flavours but then again, it may be because of the powerful spicy taste the dominated.
Being a one bowl a day (max) smoker, I'll try the St. James tomorrow and see what it offers.
I have to update my initial findings: the first couple flakes of Laurel were a bit loose, but this last one now that I’m really looking hard at it does look remarkably similar to the St. James. Now that I have gotten my first few experiences out of the way, I am also starting to notice the similarities in taste more apparently. Admittedly, I don’t have an ultra-refined palette. I think I was picking up strongly on the differences before, but now I can see how there is some distinct sameness to them. I’ll admit that my first assessment was probably off, for the experienced smoker (which I am not) most people would probably know these to be the same or nearly the same tobacco. I think the different flavor profiles that resulted from extensive aging of one versus the other threw me for a loop. I still prefer the St. James, but holy damn is that Laurel silky smooth and sweet. Thanks again, Ashdigger! I love the VaPer’s I’ve tried, this makes me keen to start cellaring some of the better ones.
Great reviews!! I'm stoled all the samples survived shipment. Not bad considering the envelopes were a tad thick, one was shipped to Canada and another to Scotland.
There is still one or left to review, but yes, I wrote my review two weeks ago. I'll just cut and paste out of the word doc.
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