Germain and Sons Stopping Production?

[karam]

Anything is possible but sounds unlikely. Why close a business that easily sells everything they make?

Could be because:

Somehow, I really doubt it. About the only thing I'd heard was that the next generation wasn't interested in carrying on the family business, and THAT was unsubstantiated.

We don't know their margins. I remember being told by a tobacco farmer (in Greece) that tobacco has pathetically small margins for everyone involved in the chain, from field to shelf. Coffee too by the way. Maybe they just break even, it's possible the people who run Germain's have day jobs and do this just because they want to. I don't know, just speculating here.
What's always puzzled me if they (Germain's as an ultra boutique manufacturer who does everything inhouse) don't seem to jack up their prices even a bit, despite being certain they'd sell out every single run. MacBaren is a bit on the expensive side but still very affordable all things considered.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Could be because:

We don't know their margins. I remember being told by a tobacco farmer (in Greece) that tobacco has pathetically small margins for everyone involved in the chain, from field to shelf. Coffee too by the way. Maybe they just break even, it's possible the people who run Germain's have day jobs and do this just because they want to. I don't know, just speculating here.
What's always puzzled me if they (Germain's as an ultra boutique manufacturer who does everything inhouse) don't seem to jack up their prices even a bit, despite being certain they'd sell out every single run. MacBaren is a bit on the expensive side but still very affordable all things considered.

They sell out of everything immediately. If their margins aren't what they need they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[karam]

They sell out of everything immediately. If their margins aren't what they need they have no one to blame but themselves.

Totally agree!

 

[Dr. Van Loafer]

Did you buy any? If so, please will you post the date code on the bag/tin?

I picked up a tin of Balkan Sobranie. The only code is on the back: 1300G091.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

We had someone once a week saying that Mike had told them that he was about to quit production on McClellands. And each post got stomped down till Pipestud made his posts.

It’s a possibility. But, I wouldn’t bank on it.

What, like people will stop buying it? Ha ha.

 

[Papamique]

We had someone once a week saying that Mike had told them that he was about to quit production on McClellands. And each post got stomped down till Pipestud made his posts.

It’s a possibility. But, I wouldn’t bank on it.

What, like people will stop buying it? Ha ha.

+1. You never know what you know until you know it and when you get it, you got it but until then you ain’t gettin’ it. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’, you know what I’m sayin’?

It’s all very confusing and mysterious and hopefully this cleared it up a bit. Let those who have eyes see what I’m saying. What can I say except ‘your welcome’.

 

[Peter Turbo]

Who cares no one can get their shit anyway lol

 

[FurCoat]

I picked up a tin of Balkan Sobranie. The only code is on the back: 1300G091.

That's a 2022 production.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have heard nothing about anyone closing. But, I think some reactions to this is based on our American dream of starting a company and then letting a factory take over.

Many also think that blending tobacco is a matter of following a recipe. So much of red Virginia, so much white burley, a dash of sauce and mix.
Just turn that over to a factory and have them make it on a GRAND scale.

McClellands obviously had some magic going on that would be near impossible to just hand over to another company. I can’t say for sure, but Germains may also. It could be a specific source for tobacco, they could be curing it themselves, or maybe the sauce is cooked up in a special pot that the owner thinks makes the sauces special.
Just look at what happened to Condor… or all of the tobaccos that STG took over. Sure, Escudo still sells and it is still “good,” but just not as good. But, the name and reputation of “Escudo” is mostly what keeps that one in the top ten.

Germains is a family business. I can easily see the owner wanting to just close, rather than have someone else make their blends with money being the main goal. Someone making a fortune off of the reputation that the owner established.

Famous Amos Cookies was an in house cookie that blew the minds of people visiting the shops. But then, Amos sold out to Nabisco and changed the recipes to increase profits. It was no longer the famous cookies they were to start with. CEOs start making decisions…

It wouldn’t surprise me if a family run tobacco guy would see success as just letting it end.

I’m not saying that they are. I have no idea. I’m just saying that I could see it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have also met and talked with enough pipe store owners to know that many of then don’t know shit, ha ha.

One guy bought an old Tinderbox and threw away all of the tins because they had expired past the expiration date, ha ha. One that I’m friends with has dementia of some sorts and can’t decide whether he is open or closed, and the guy in Gatlinburg told me that he made all of the obviously Peter Stokkebye products and eventually lied to an undercover ATF guy and got fined thousands of dollars for lying.

So, I’d take all of that with a grain of salt. We won’t know for sure till they close, but… Like that’s going to effects sales in a negative way?

 

[sablebrush52]

I have also met and talked with enough pipe store owners to know that many of then don’t know shit, ha ha.

One guy bought an old Tinderbox and threw away all of the tins because they had expired past the expiration date, ha ha. One that I’m friends with has dementia of some sorts and can’t decide whether he is open or closed, and the guy in Gatlinburg told me that he made all of the obviously Peter Stokkebye products and eventually lied to an undercover ATF guy and got fined thousands of dollars for lying.

So, I’d take all of that with a grain of salt. We won’t know for sure till they close, but… Like that’s going to effects sales in a negative way?

Tobacconist wisdom and "insider" info has been a running gag here for years. They're not what they were 50 years ago. Doesn't preclude Germain's changing or closing, but doesn'tmean anything like that is in the works, either.

BTW, has anyone contacted Germain's to ask?

There are MAJOR differences between Germain's and McClelland. Germain's is a multi generational family business that has been going for well over 200 years. McClelland was the McNeill's baby and they made no effort to prepare for a transition, because they didn't think anyone would be able to keep the blends at the level of quality they achieved.
What they have in common is reliance upon particular sources and qualities for the tobaccos they use to make their blends. McClelland cited increasing difficulty in sourcing leaf of the quality they needed to continue and cited the ending of federal subsidies to tobacco farmers as a contributing factor to that decrease in quality.

Germain's just continues to send out products, but anyone who's familiar with their line and has a working palate will have noticed that in the past few years they have changed some of the Virginias used in their base, and the result is a change to the blend's flavors. Dunbar is really not what it once was, and other blends have changed as well.
Still, Germain's continues on with what it can get. So that doesn't sound like closing to me, but that doesn't mean that they mightn't sell out at some point, like much of the UK tobacco blenders and become just another notch on a conglomerate's belt.

 

[5star]

Hmmmm . . so a salesman told you to buy something he was selling, because soon it would no longer be available ?

Okayyyy . . . .

 

[mso489]

In the Navy, at least when I was aboard eons ago, rumors were called scuttlebutt, and it was my theory that if you listened long enough you could hear anything. The scuttlebutt I remember most vividly was that our minesweeper, which was mostly made of wood to be anti-magnetic to avoid mines, and was about two or three stories tall from the waterline, and had a somewhat deep draft (from the waterline to the keel) was going to be sent up the Mekong River as a patrol boat. Oh, and our main battery (the largest artillery aboard) was (believe it or not) a mortar! Fortunately, that scuttlebutt wasn't true. We would have run aground in fifteen minutes. Listen long enough, and you can hear anything.

The most effective weaponry aboard were two 50 cal. machine guns fired from the second deck, which we used to bring along side junks thought to be carrying contraband weapons. Our ship only went about 14 knots top speed, so the fast junks would pull away (with the weapons no doubt) and they'd leave behind grandma and grandpa in a slow boat to hold us back while they got away. Occasionally the South Vietnamese military aboard our ship would pick up a young adult suspect from the slow boat.

Trust but verify. Or don't trust, but keep your eyes and ears alert.

 

[Dr. Van Loafer]

Yeah

Hmmmm . . so a salesman told you to buy something he was selling, because soon it would no longer be available ?

Okayyyy . . .

Yeah…that was my exact thought as well..upselling me to buy the Esoterica. I was skeptical as they had other Germain blends that are not Estorica, and many of those tins.

 

[Dr. Van Loafer]

Tobacconist wisdom and "insider" info has been a running gag here for years. They're not what they were 50 years ago. Doesn't preclude Germain's changing or closing, but doesn'tmean anything like that is in the works, either.

BTW, has anyone contacted Germain's to ask?

There are MAJOR differences between Germain's and McClelland. Germain's is a multi generational family business that has been going for well over 200 years. McClelland was the McNeill's baby and they made no effort to prepare for a transition, because they didn't think anyone would be able to keep the blends at the level of quality they achieved.
What they have in common is reliance upon particular sources and qualities for the tobaccos they use to make their blends. McClelland cited increasing difficulty in sourcing leaf of the quality they needed to continue and cited the ending of federal subsidies to tobacco farmers as a contributing factor to that decrease in quality.

Germain's just continues to send out products, but anyone who's familiar with their line and has a working palate will have noticed that in the past few years they have changed some of the Virginias used in their base, and the result is a change to the blend's flavors. Dunbar is really not what it once was, and other blends have changed as well.
Still, Germain's continues on with what it can get. So that doesn't sound like closing to me, but that doesn't mean that they mightn't sell out at some point, like much of the UK tobacco blenders and become just another notch on a conglomerate's belt.

How would one contact Germains? I cant locate a website for them, but perhaps they dont have a website.

 

[Dr. Van Loafer]

That's a 2022 production.

Thank you, so my suspicions are correct at least on the Sobranie tins that they were part of the most recent release and not found in some warehouse.

 

[skeeter456]

Well bet better go to the shelves and buy all we can

 

[bullet08]

What's the difference? Can't get 'em anyway.

 

[beargreasediet]

I hate this thread, it’s crushed all my pipe dreams. I was looking forward to opening a tin of Dunbar (which I was quite pleased to buy at retail) that is until I found out it ain’t crap compared to the old stuff. The last thing in the world I want to do is sing it’s virtues only to highlight to my palate’s lack of education.

To make matter worse, even if was any good I couldn’t smoke it anyway. Because in the event Germain’s does close its doors, the product I’ve got will be too valuable to smoke. I suppose the only thing left to do is to start hoarding the stuff compulsively and call it an “investment”.

 

[karam]

How would one contact Germains? I cant locate a website for them, but perhaps they dont have a website.

Give them a call, maybe someone will actually pick up the old landline :D


My take on this thread - and still have the two tins a member here EXTREMELY KINDLY gifted to me, will smoke once I finally get my holiday and mouth cleansed from cigarette smoke killing my tastebuds - is "In Gawith we Trust". I'd throw in MacBaren and K&K as makers of stellar tobacco but they are big(ger) operations, and their stuff is not anywhere near as unique as the British offerings, and Gawith seems to really have their act together in terms of moving forward strongly, saucing comments or not.