Found a Dunhill U.S. Patent /20

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

Trying to discern the date of this Dunhill. Pictures to come. The stampings seem to place it in the 1927 range, or the 1940s range, due to the “/20” marking at the end of the patent number. It is also marked “R” and “7” on the smooth space that is the bottom of the bowl. The shape? I believe it’s considered a Pot. The date at the end of the “made in England” seems to be a “7.”

I’m pretty excited about this pipe. A genuinely random find that I wouldn’t have caught without extensive study of Dunhills. (The stamping is almost completely gone). I’m pumped to own and smoke a wonderful piece of History.

 

[beefeater33]

Congrats! The /20 patent and the 7 after England would place it at the 1927 date.
A 1947 pipe would have the /34 patent number.
You can't go wrong with an older, patent era Dunhill.
The "R" is the shape designation, and you're correct it's a pot, and a damn good smoker of English blends in my opinion.
The random "7" on the bottom is most likely the size of the inner-tube that it originally had.
Looking forward to some pics!!

 

[mikethompson]

Well there's your answer! Sounds like a great find. Where did you get it?

 

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

It’s certainly not in great shape, but for a hundred year old pipe it will fix up nicely and I’m glad to have the original stem!

 

[Magnum207]

What a beautiful old pipe!

Did the bowl crack while reaming, or did you find it that way? Anyway, hopefully someone can guide you in how to possibly repair it. I, fortunately, never had a pipe with a cracked bowl, so I am not certain if you can even repair a bowl crack, or if you could/should smoke it “as is.” Seems you could repair it, given it’s at the rim, however; not sure if a “super glue” or comparable adhesive and immediate clamp would suffice. Others will provide guidance I am certain.

 

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

It looks like a previous owner overly reamed if- not sure if that was the cause of the crack but wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

Well there's your answer! Sounds like a great find. Where did you get it?

Mike, I found it all alone in a pipe stand in a junk store in Jacksonville FL. Was in a very unlikely place, next to literal junk. A Christmas miracle!

 

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

I think I will send it off to someone to repair… although I’m quite worried because I once sent off a precious Barling’s Make and the repair person ( who is well known btw) mistakenly buffed off the stem logo!

 

[Ahi Ka]

@sablebrush52 is this one of the black dot dunhill’s?

 

[RobertLeslie75]

Wow!!! I am envious to say the least. Please post pics after you clean it up

 

[kcghost]

Black dot Dunhill's?? You before hope George Dibos doesn't see this thread.

 

[sablebrush52]

@sablebrush52 is this one of the black dot dunhill’s?

The subject of black dot Dunhills is controversial. Some believe they're real and some don't. George thinks that the black dots are caused by staining from years of smoking and that none were ever made. I think I own one because the "dot" is not shaped like any other Dunhill dot I own or have seen, and I've seen thousands of them. Mine isn't flat on top, it's a hemisphere, so light glances off of it, revealing the "dot".

I'll just say maybe it is, and maybe it isn't.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Black dot Dunhill's?? You before hope George Dibos doesn't see this thread.

Well I couldn’t tag him directly, now that would have just been too easy. Haha

OP, awesome score btw!

 

[DotAndBang’sPipes]

I think this is a white dot… When I look at it in the light there is almost a brown/deep red hue to it.

Question:
If I was to restore this myself, is there anything that would make that too risky? I’m not a great restorer but, as long as there’s no logo stamp to contend with on the stem, I don’t suck either. I would use Murphy’s on the bowl, in addition to an ozone treatment, along with a super glue/briar dust combo for the bowl crack.

I’ve read that I don’t have to be too worried about the dot… that it’s an ivory rod. Correct? Should I attempt to get the dot white again?

 

[anotherbob]

It’s certainly not in great shape, but for a hundred year old pipe it will fix up nicely and I’m glad to have the original stem! View attachment 117673

it's one of those legendary black spot pipes. Some great member here told the story of a collector that thought they made some black spot pipes for a wizard king or something stupid like that. You know instead of some pipes get smoked and handled so much the spot turns black.

 

[Ahi Ka]

I clean up all my own estates. The only time I didn’t feel comfortable doing so was also when I found a 1924 Dunhill’s shell briar. I wanted to preserve as much “collector value” as possible.

 

[mikethompson]

I would grab a few no name estates before tackling an old Dunhill, but that's just me.

Nice save from the junk store!

 

[georged]

The subject of black dot Dunhills is controversial. Some believe they're real and some don't. George thinks that the black dots are caused by staining from years of smoking and that none were ever made.

Not quite.

The "from years of smoking" part is irrelevant UNLESS the cellulose rod that comprises the dot extends into the airway (over-drilling at the time of manufacture). When it does, it's like a slow motion sponge that wicks Smoking Crud up the rod, depositing the solids and eventually turning the dot the same color AS the Crud.

In the meantime, it'll go from bone colored to amber, to tan, to latigo, to walnut. Sometimes with a bit of red/cherry thown in.

I've not only seen it many times but have photos of such cases.

I think I own one because the "dot" is not shaped like any other Dunhill dot I own or have seen, and I've seen thousands of them. Mine isn't flat on top, it's a hemisphere, so light glances off of it, revealing the "dot".

That's simply the result of two things converging: 1) the dot backing out of the hole (which isn't terribly uncommon... I own several and have seen many; and 2) one of the pipe's former owners used a buffer to shine / polish the pipe frequently. Result? Instant round-over into a lovely lens-like hemisphere.

--------------

Regarding material other than white dot rod being found at the white dot position on a Dunhill stem, by far the most likely explanation is when a legit dot backed out completely and was lost, the owner jammed something entertaining/frivolous into the hole. A small synthetic pearl, a circular faux gemstone, etc.

No one has ever unearthed any documentation to support being able to order a real diamond or similar as a dot from Dunhill at any time, anyway.

(Which, in my mind, always begged the question of why anyone who could afford such an indulgence do the deed to a pipe that is otherwise completely average... If the pipe was a spectacular DR H giant, or something, I might lean toward the "VIP special order through VIP special connections" theory. But for a pedestrian group 4 lovat, not so much.)

 

[JimInks]

Not quite.

The "from years of smoking" part is irrelevant UNLESS the cellulose rod that comprises the dot extends into the airway (over-drilling at the time of manufacture). When it does, it's like a slow motion sponge that wicks Smoking Crud up the rod, depositing the solids and eventually turning the dot the same color AS the Crud.

In the meantime, it'll go from bone colored to amber, to tan, to latigo, to walnut. Sometimes with a bit of red/cherry thown in.

I've not only seen it many times but have photos of such cases.



That's simply the result of two things converging: 1) the dot backing out of the hole (which isn't terribly uncommon... I own several and have seen many; and 2) one of the pipe's former owners used a buffer to shine / polish the pipe frequently. Result? Instant round-over into a lovely lens-like hemisphere.

--------------

Regarding material other than white dot rod being found at the white dot position on a Dunhill stem, by far the most likely explanation is when a legit dot backed out completely and was lost, the owner jammed something entertaining/frivolous into the hole. A small synthetic pearl, a circular faux gemstone, etc.

No one has ever unearthed any documentation to support being able to order a real diamond or similar as a dot from Dunhill at any time, anyway.

(Which, in my mind, always begged the question of why anyone who could afford such an indulgence do the deed to a pipe that is otherwise completely average... If the pipe was a spectacular DR H giant, or something, I might lean toward the "VIP special order through VIP special connections" theory. But for a pedestrian group 4 lovat, not so much.)

That's good information and observations, George. Would you mind posting a few photos of the "black dots"? I'd like to see them, and I think it'd be very instructive for others to see.

 

[sablebrush52]

Not quite.

The "from years of smoking" part is irrelevant UNLESS the cellulose rod that comprises the dot extends into the airway (over-drilling at the time of manufacture). When it does, it's like a slow motion sponge that wicks Smoking Crud up the rod, depositing the solids and eventually turning the dot the same color AS the Crud.

In the meantime, it'll go from bone colored to amber, to tan, to latigo, to walnut. Sometimes with a bit of red/cherry thown in.

I've not only seen it many times but have photos of such cases.



That's simply the result of two things converging: 1) the dot backing out of the hole (which isn't terribly uncommon... I own several and have seen many; and 2) one of the pipe's former owners used a buffer to shine / polish the pipe frequently. Result? Instant round-over into a lovely lens-like hemisphere.

--------------

Regarding material other than white dot rod being found at the white dot position on a Dunhill stem, by far the most likely explanation is when a legit dot backed out completely and was lost, the owner jammed something entertaining/frivolous into the hole. A small synthetic pearl, a circular faux gemstone, etc.

No one has ever unearthed any documentation to support being able to order a real diamond or similar as a dot from Dunhill at any time, anyway.

(Which, in my mind, always begged the question of why anyone who could afford such an indulgence do the deed to a pipe that is otherwise completely average... If the pipe was a spectacular DR H giant, or something, I might lean toward the "VIP special order through VIP special connections" theory. But for a pedestrian group 4 lovat, not so much.)

George,
Has anyone asked Dunhill's archivist about this? (Assuming they still have one.)