Fires In The West

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ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,378
70,055
60
Vegas Baby!!!
He's not entirely wrong. It's about thinning out the density of trees per acre and getting rid of a percentage of the dead material. Its not exactly raking and it doesn't guarantee that fires won't happen. However, it may make forests healthier and make fires easier to contain. California passed a bill last year to fund clearing out a million acres a year. Dry lightning storms got there first.

Yes, a law was passed last year, a law that wasn’t funded or implemented. A law that is at a minimum 30 years too late.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
Yes, a law was passed last year, a law that wasn’t funded or implemented. A law that is at a minimum 30 years too late.
USFS fuels techs were screaming bloody murder about the insanity of putting out low-level "housekeeping" fires as a matter of policy since at least the 1970's. (I'm sure---I was there)

Politicians---the law makers---only cared about what the vastly ignorant public wanted, though, which was smileyface Smokey the Bear finger-wagging and Walt-Disney-minded save Bambi nonsense; and what the well-intentioned but equally ignorant "Eco-Warrior" tree huggers wanted.

The result is today the fuel load per acre in many areas is many times higher---in some cases two orders of magnitude higher---than is natural. And the result of that is when it burns, the fire CROWNS, travels at insane speeds, the heat is sufficient to sterilize the soil, and the ecosystem is thrown out of balance for decades afterward. Areas are created that look like apocalyptic scenes from a war movie.

Needless to say, all human habitation in the path of such fires is completely destroyed.

In short, in many ways, Humanity isn't ready for primetime.

Forest management is one of those ways.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,675
29,392
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
In my library I have a book written in the 1930’s discussing this issue. I also have a book written in the 1970’s describing how the government has managed to make things worse by pouring tons of money into the problem with little to no accountability.

Negligence and corruption are the problem.

Fun fact, the environmentalists are actually the bigger problem. They’ve lobbied weak politicians into passing laws that forbid efforts to lighten underbrush fuel loads.

Choices were made. Welcome to consequences.
I don't know the details about how it got there. Otherwise then a long time ago deciding that every fire had to be fought and that issue getting worse because people are building in worse places. The details I don't really know. But forests are meant to burn but in smaller more semi regular ways. You know a patch here a patch there, not the a giant swath like that. It clears out the underbrush fuel you fight everything you get a lot more fuel which leads to more fire not less and more destructive fires too.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
People in crowded areas are naturally drawn to areas that have never been inhabited in the modern sense. Wilderness is so beautiful and alluring. The forests and grasslands have been "taking care of themselves" for ages and look perfectly in balance ... as uninhabited areas. Then people show up to live in harmony with nature, we think. I'd never heard of a gender reveal party. The prospective aunties would all call each other up, usually after the birth, and tell whether it was a boy or girl. The new dad would pass out cigars. It sounds sufficient to me. That was before ultrasound.
 
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jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,068
Carmel Valley, CA
Is there any state park open anywhere in this state? I circumnavigated Lake Tahoe yesterday and all of them (10-12) that I saw were shut down.
 
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sfduke

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 14, 2012
209
232
Is there any state park open anywhere in this state? I circumnavigated Lake Tahoe yesterday and all of them (10-12) that I saw were shut down.
Believe all national forest parks in CA are closed right now. Not sure about NV.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
3,976
11,065
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'm sorry (kinda) that I haven't been paying attention, but what's the connection between gender reveal parties and fire? I know I can Google it, but I'm actually afraid of the garbage it'll inevitably pull up.
 
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jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,068
Carmel Valley, CA
Believe all national forest parks in CA are closed right now. Not sure about NV.
Yes, National Parks, too, but I was referring to CA state parks. Lots of them @ Tahoe.

You can put your location in your Profile—(please!—because people will forget!) and which will save questions in the future as to where you live when you later mention local stores, weather, tobacco prices, availability, regulations, location of photos, etc., etc..
Under your avatar, (top right, left most of three symbols) you choose "Account Details", which brings up "My Account". "My Location" is halfway down. Whatever you're comfortable with- town, city, county, state.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
mince, if I understand correctly, one of the big fires coursing across California now or recently was set off by a barbecue or campfire associated with a party to announce the gender of a couples' pregnancy as determined by ultrasound. It was supposed to be a fun gathering to break the suspense over whether they would have a boy or girl. And then oops, the entire landscape burst into flame for miles around swallowing houses and towns in its path, and no one is asking if the kid is a girl or boy anymore. It sounds a bit California to me (the party, not the fire) but this is no time to start critiquing the local social innovations. Only you can prevent forest fires.
 
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jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,068
Carmel Valley, CA
Forest *thinning*, or removal of smaller diameter, younger trees is the recommended approach. Sometimes companies will do this to sell the wood chips.
Not logging or raking.
I can see how thinning would reduce the risk, but not by a lot. If there were wide swaths of clear cut areas in our national forests and private land, I think that would go further in reducing the multi-ten thousand acres fires. A bit ugly, but effective. No?

Perhaps Tim can say how wide it needs to be. I'd guess 1/4 mile, after seeing a grass fire jump an interstate.
 
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davek

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 20, 2014
685
952
I can see how thinning would reduce the risk, but not by a lot. If there were wide swaths of clear cut areas in our national forests and private land, I think that would go further in reducing the multi-ten thousand acres fires. A bit ugly, but effective. No?

Perhaps Tim can say how wide it needs to be. I'd guess 1/4 mile, after seeing a grass fire jump an interstate.
Might be too late for just the thinning. Probably is. That's an interesting thought. Seriously.

 
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